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2018 Never Summer Chairman (ripsaw camber)

16K views 38 replies 14 participants last post by  deagol 
#1 · (Edited)
This will be on ongoing thread on the 2018 NS Chairman. I don't have a production model but Vince Sanders of Never Summer was kind enough to let me borrow a prototype NS Chairman 161X. Please note that NS is letting me borrow the prototype for free but is not selling or giving it to me and I will be returning it once I'm done demoing it. Also note that Vince told me that the prototype is stiffer than the production mode which has had its flex better tuned for the Ripsaw camber to make it more dynamic.

My early production 2015 Chairman 160 is my favorite board and daily driver. I've had it since January 2015 and have 95+ days on it. When Vince noted that in the Instagator thread that the 2018 Chairman would have Ripsaw camber instead of the extended transition original rocker camber variant, I was instantly interested. The 2015 Chairman is a great board for my purposes. It's a stiff and super damp freeride board with a long effective edge that powers through anything. It needs a strong rider though because as a stiff CRC board it is not most accessible. But I thought giving it more camber and less rocker would give it more bite in the initiation and more rebound out of turns.

Here is a picture of the difference in camber between my original 2015 Chairman and the 2018 Chairman prototype.


The statistics on the 161X are:
Waist 26.6 cm
Edge 127 cm
Sidecut Vario 850 cm
Tip/Tail 30.5/30.0
Surface Area 672 sq in/4335 sq cm

I've had it out one day so far at night. The weather had warmed up then dropepd below freezing and there was nothing loose, soft or granular on the surface. It was not ice or true hardpack but solid and almost chalk-like in hardness and consistency. You could still hold an edge on it but you wouldn't sink in it at all.

I threw some Frankenbindings on it. Union Chargers metal frame and carbon fiber highback with Burton X Base asymmetrical hammock straps and Burton Cartel toe caps.

You can immediately feel the difference between the 2015 Chairman and the 2018 Chairman prototype. They both feel very stiff but you definitely feel the increased camber and decreased rocker of the 2018. While stationary, there is a more planted feeling with pressure at the tip and tail contact points and far less of the teeter totter feel of the original rocker camber. The 2015 Chairman initiates turns really well and the 2018 Chairman improves on that. There's a nice degree of bite to the contact points so it hooks into the turn even more readily. There is good camber rebound off the bottom of the turn. On the original Chairman getting good rebound required really aggressive riding but on the 2018 the rebound and snap is much more accessible and feels more lively. The board is still super damp and cut through everything while maintaining really good edge hold. It can still be pivoted off the middle rocker easily when needed. One thing to note though, while there was more rebound and the rebound was more accessible, the stiffness of the board still means that you really need to use your weight to load up the board. Just using your feet to flex the board deep into the turn to tighten up the turn and load up the board isn't easy without putting your weight and strength into it. My understanding from Vince is that the production models have their flex better turned to the board and are less of a beast to flex.

The board hooked into turns hard, held an edge well, and rebounded/snapped out of turns into the next turn better than its predecessor. The base was fast and the board ate up chop because of its super dampness. It feels more planted and less surfy than its predecessor. All in all I really like it so far and I'm going to be buying a production model at my own cost to replace my 2015 Chairman. I'll keep updating this thread through my testing in various conditions until I return it and then will update this thread once I have the production model to review.
 
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#5 ·
I just compared the 2016-2017 catalog to the 2017-2018 catalog and the sizes and dimensions are listed as the exact same. Sizes are 157, 160, 164, 173 in normal width and 161X, 165X and 169X for the wides. Waist, tip and tail widths remain the same as last year as does effective edge and sidecut according to the catalog numbers. Camber profile and flex pattern are different of course.
 
#6 ·
Just had the 2018 Chairman 161X out for 2 more days. The first day started out in the mid 20s and ended up in the 50s. The second day started in the low 40s and ended up in the low 60s. The conditions were soft and slushy spring-like conditions. My opinion so far has remained the same. The contact points toward the tip and tail contact easily with less of the teeter totter feel of the original rocker camber. There is more rebound out of turns and its much more accessible. Up on edge it feels more camber like. It springs out of turns well and you can hop from edge to edge really easily. The board is still super damp and just eats up chop. While I like my Amplid UNW8 for carving smooth groomers, I prefer the Chairman in variable conditions like when things get bumpy or slushy or icy or deep. It's confidence inspiring at speed if you like CRC.
 
#13 ·
The original rocker camber can lend itself to ride that feels smooth and surfy to me for lack of a better explanation and I can see why some people would prefer that. Also the way you can get the nose to pop up by weighting the back and using the rocker can be nice when it gets deep. For the powder boards, they are now using a hybrid "fusion camber" with the original level of camber up front and ripsaw in the back and I can see the rationale for that. Almost all their boards are now ripsaw for 2018 with the dedicated powder boards with the fusion camber. Chairman, Ripsaw, West, Funslinger, and Proto Type 2 are all ripsaw camber. Swift, Maverix, Instagator and Big Gun are all fusion camber. The only men's boards left with original rocker camber are now Snowtrooper and Warlock.
 
#18 · (Edited)
Total newbie chiming in here - my 4th day on a snowboard ever (all this year, third week in a row today!). My "beginner" setup is a 2006 NS Legacy 163 - traditional camber, pretty darn stiff, wide. I'm rocking 2002ish Burton C14 bindings (super stiff). Rented my first day, bought board/bindings/boots for day two. Today was the first day with boots that fit - when I got first got them, they gave my 14's. Went back and swapped them for 11.5... Let's just say the first day on that setup was, uh, rough. Last week was much more successful, and today, with boots that actually fit, and testing out lots of new NS boards, I had a blast.

NS Dawn Patrol came by Monarch Mountain today for a wonderful sunny beachy spring day, with lots and lots of 2018 demo boards. I think it was about 55F in the afternoon, it got slushy. Anyway, despite my total beginner skillset (can link turns no problem at this point, getting a little dynamic with a little rhythm, feeling pretty comfortable and happy on easier blue runs, and working towards carving but I'm just barely, uh, scratching the surface with it). The NS guys set me up first thing in the morning, swapping my bindings onto a 163 Marverix; I got out as soon as the lifts started running and gave it a go. The board was (predictably) easier to get around on than my old stiff cambered Legacy, and definitely gave me a boost of confidence, helping me to feel comfortable working through some basic drills.

Figured I would try something quite a bit different than my Legacy, and they then set me up on a 159 Insta-gator. It was pretty easy to ride, fun and forgiving, but the edge didn't seem to want to bite (at least not with my skillset), and I got a little bored of it after one run.

For the last demo of the day, I asked to try out something more aggressive, like a Ripsaw, but they didn't have any in the bigger sizes, so they threw me on a 161X Chairman. I was a little worried that it'd be too much board for me, but after the first 100 feet or so, I realized it was just as easy for me to ride as any of the others I'd tried - on top of that, it had a feel/response that I can only really describe as "intuitive." Made my way down a nice empty wide blue run (Freeway), that last week was super icy, and this week was a bit slushy. I managed to make some honest-to-goodness carved turns, pretty mild in terms of aggressiveness, but easy to initiate and maintain in less-than ideal conditions. That gave me enough confidence to explore the mountain some more, and went on a different long blue run (Little Mo) that was ridiculously chopped up and slushy and mushy. Had a BLAST, got some great practice absorbing bumps, cutting through crud, etc.

I don't have any insights on the Chairman for the more experienced/skilled riders out there, but it was by far my favorite of the three, like I said, the best way I can describe it was "intuitive." Didn't have to think about technique, form, turn initiation, anything, just got out there and was able to experiment with different pressure, edge angles, absorbing bumps, etc. They said it was their most aggressive/hardcore board, but honestly it was the easiest one for me to ride and gave me the most confidence, on day 4 of my snowboarding career. So, not a bad board for a beginner either, I guess!

Finished out the day on my old Legacy, and I can't say a whole lot different - it felt pretty similar to the Chairman, but I had to be a bit more deliberate with my technique. I think I'll be happy with my Legacy for a while, and as a stiff cambered board I think it will pretty much force me into learning good technique - but come fall, if I decide I want a new board, I may be looking for a Chairman.
 
#20 ·
I just bought a Never Summer Ripsaw and stumbled upon your [Chairman] review. I noticed about your "Frankenbindings"... I can't believe I found a brother-in-arms! I do that too! (well, just for the toe strap) and even call them "Frankenbindings", and even have Union [T.Rice] bindings as well! LOL

For some reason my front-foot toe strap always would come loose when I ride, especially if I was doing tricks. I'd have to tighten it multiple times while going down the hill.

When I saw Burton's helical, double-sided, strap, I decided to order some straps and they fit!
The Burtons are *much* better at not loosening.

I seriously thought I was the only one in the world who had done this!
 
#21 · (Edited)
hello!



i need your help guys and girls!

i am an intermediate snowboarder. i was riding for the first years a traditional full camber (i think it was a palmer)snowboard.the camber board was very stiff and aggressive and it didnt help me move up level. i was novice and i was afraid of catching edges all the time. 7 years before i buy a neversummer SL-R . the never summer sl-r was phenomenal . it was easy to turn , very playfull , agile, and forgiving. i move up level very fast....
it helped me be an intermediate snowboarder. now i can ride any face at backcountry and any piste ....

but now... i feel that i need more edge control for carving and more grip on the edges and more stiffness so that i can charge faster....

i ride groomers , and powder , i dont ride switch ,i dont like park , i dont like jibbing. i like to ride fast on the piste and on powder. i like carving and ride trees with powder.

i was thinking about the neversummer chairman (the 2018 with the ripsaw profile) OR some camber board like the flagship or the YES PYL.

how does these different profiles (ripsaw and the camber with early rise edges) compaire with each other?
which one has more edge control ? which one is more forgiving? which one has easiest and fast edge to edge?

i was thinking all summer, i was reading reviews, but i need the opinion of someone which has ride both profiles.

i tend more to chairman . if you forget the other profiles that i mention above , is the chairman good for me? is it too aggresive? is it forgiving for an intermediate snowboarder(not to a novice)? i am scared a bit with the flex rating of the chairman (it is the stiffest). is it too aggresive?

i was thinking for the neversummer west but the flex rating is the same as an SLR. and it will not be as good as the chairman in powder(chairman is tapered). plus i dont ride switch i dont need twin board...

what about sizing? i ride slr at 161 , the floatation is perfect for my weight and i have rarely toe drag in a point that it doesnt bother me. . should i go with the chairman 161x ? i am thinking that i will charge the chairman more than the sl so the toe drag will be much often. i use burton ion (reduced foorprint) us10 and i weight 190-195 lbs (86-87 kg). my stance is +21 -9 . i am not so close to zero degrees so that i have toe drag


need your help...

a confused rider!


(sorry for my grammar and any mistakes i made in my post)
 
#23 · (Edited)
hello!

..
i ride groomers , and powder , i dont ride switch ,i dont like park , i dont like jibbing. ..

i was thinking about the neversummer chairman (the 2018 with the ripsaw profile) OR some camber board like the flagship or the YES PYL.

how does these different profiles (ripsaw and the camber with early rise edges) compaire with each other?
which one has more edge control ? which one is more forgiving? which one has easiest and fast edge to edge?


is the chairman good for me? is it too aggresive? is it forgiving for an intermediate snowboarder(not to a novice)? i am scared a bit with the flex rating of the chairman (it is the stiffest). is it too aggresive?

..

what about sizing? i ride slr at 161 , the floatation is perfect for my weight and i have rarely toe drag in a point that it doesnt bother me. . should i go with the chairman 161x ? i am thinking that i will charge the chairman more than the sl so the toe drag will be much often. i use burton ion (reduced foorprint) us10 and i weight 190-195 lbs (86-87 kg). my stance is +21 -9 . i am not so close to zero degrees so that i have toe drag
..
I never saw Stavros' post back in August but I just bought my own Chairman (wide model) after testing it for a few weeks last season basically for the following reasons:
versatility- the wide floats in powder and carves extremely well, just as well if not better than most of the camber boards I have owned in my time riding. I've had boards that do well i powder, but not ones that carve like this, also vice versa.. my best carving-specific board doesn't float well at all.

The following is obviously just my opinion and I will try to answer the bolded question above.

How do the profiles (Rippsaw CRC vs trad camber) compare? well, the R-CRC with the vario sidecut holds an edge extremely well, comparable to Trad Camber, IMO- all else being equal. But, you have to get it up on edge a bit more for it to engage. Trad Camber feels more locked in on on angles where the board is still relatively flat on the snow. This has benefits and drawbacks to me. The surfy feeling when flat-basing is great for powder and other situations when you want to be able to throw the board around a bit and trad camber can be too catchy to do that. On strictly predictable smooth groomers, you don't need the surfy feel, but some may like it. When it is like that and I don't plan to head off into variable snow conditions or steep terrain or moguls, I prefer the locked-in feel of trad camber over R-CRC.

is this board too aggressive for you (intermediate snowboarder)? this is really hard to answer because intermediate can mean different things to different people. I generally don't think of the Chairman as an intermediate board, but your opinion may vary. Most boards billed as intermediate, I think, are not this stiff.

floatation if the regular width 161 gives you good flotation and you do not have toe drag issues with that width, I would stick with that regular width. I did have toe drag issues on regular width (size US 8.5 width boots) so I went for the wide for that reason. Most people don't have toe drag issues even with several sizes large than what I have from what I have read.

it may or may not help, but I put together a short vid of my experience with my first day on this board

 
#22 ·
Yiassou Stavros! I tried a 2018 Chairman on my 4th day snowboarding, as a beginner, and I had no trouble riding it. I tried a few other boards that same day (Insta-gator, Maverix, which are less stiff), but I felt most comfortable and confident on the Chairman - I had no problem riding it, and it gave me enough confidence to make the transition from green runs to blue runs, and made me want to ride more aggressively.

My normal board is a 2006 NS Legacy, which is pretty stiff and has traditional camber (probably similar to your first board), but I only rode it 2 days before testing the Chairman, so it was difficult to compare. Now that I have a little more experience I would like to try the Chairman again so I can do a better comparison.

For what it's worth, I think I had my first real carved turn when I tested the Chairman. I'm not sure if a stiff pure camber board like a Burton Custom X would be better for carving, but from my very limited knowledge and experience, I think the Chairman would work well for your style of riding.
 
#24 ·
hello and thank you for the posts!!

i made my mind and went for the neversummer west 162 . it has ripsaw profile too but it’s softer more playful board . i think it will be ok for me . i bought it about a month ago and i can’t wait to try it and i will post my opinion .
 
#32 · (Edited)
Edit: this is a little off-topic since this is about a different board than the Never Summer Chairman, but it does have to do with board width.

So, it turns out I was wrong about having the toe drag issue solved by going to a smaller boot size (although I'm sure it helped). I was up at the ski area today riding my "narrow" board and it was less crowded, so I was able to ride at faster speeds with more angulation and the toe drag is as bad as ever.

It just re-enforces to me how boards should be wider than the standard advice says they should be...

I was getting toe drag on both front and rear bindings. The pic shows what was happening on front: the exposed end of the toe strap (coming from the inside of the front foot and extending through the slot in the toe cap) was getting caught in the snow on toeside turns at high speed and scraping snow from the slope and compacting it as ice in the toe cap opening. You can also see how the tip of the strap is being bent backwards due to this drag. The pic shows the toeside edge front foot, with the red arrow pointing to the front of the board.

I am going to cut off some excess toe strap from the bindings and move them more heelside to see if that helps (It has to help, but will it actually solve the problem?)..
 

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#33 ·
I cut all my toestrap connectors to size now for that exact reason. Shifting heelside will help a little, but then you have less toeside leverage and more chance of the heelcup digging into the snow. Toedrag you can recover from, a heelcup digging in puts you on your ass 9/10 times.

Wide ftw :grin:
 
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#38 ·
I noticed that too. I just swapped them out with the hardware from a pair of old bindings I'm selling. Old bindings don't need nice stainless hardware anyway...
 
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