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  Topic Review (Newest First)
11-12-2010 08:01 AM
snowjeeper snowolf: Donklephant, I'd be interested in seeing what you have to say on there.
11-11-2010 05:06 PM
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Social Security is not an entitlement funded from the general federal budget. It is funded by it`s own tax (FICA)....As it was intended, SS was to remain independent from the government's budget. Sadly, politicians on both sides have robbed from the account and left IOU`s in there. Al Gore got laughed at, but his point was very sound when he advocated that Social Security funds be put in a "lock box" so politicians could not raid it.

As for health care, there was never a push by the Obama Administration for universal health care or even single payer. His plan was to create a pool of private insurance companies to compete to provide the lowest cost policies to those without access to medical insurance. The plan was going to pay for itself through premiums just as your current private health insurance is. The point of the idea is that by increasing the size of the group, it drives premium prices down. Insurance companies do this today with health care policies. The larger the pool of people on the plan, the lower the individual premium is.

Say what you like about Medicare, it is still the most efficient way to dispense health care. In a private plan such as Blue Cross,as much as 70 cents of every dollar the individual spends goes to administrative costs of the insurance company leaving 30 cents to actually buy health care. By contrast, 70 to 80 cents of every dollar spent on Medicare goes to buy health care. The government can and sometimes does do things better than a corporation.

Single Payer Universal health care is the way to go. It works very well in every country that has it and eventually America is going to have to adopt it if we want to be competitive on the world economic market. The burden of health care coverage is crippling American industry to compete against out European and Asian counterparts who all have socialized medicine.

Here is a web site that you might find interesting. I suspect there will be some economic figures that will surprise you....

Medicare for All: Home
I understood that there is a separate tax that comes out, but I also understand that that it ultimately it is going to have to be propped up with money from general budget.

I read through some of the health care site...It sounds great if some of the outcomes other mention don't come true, such as the long waits. Didn't MA try a state run health care system? Didn't fail?
11-11-2010 04:42 PM
Originally Posted by SPAZ View Post
and new york

I just wanted the "Rent is too damn high!" guy to win just to give our state bragging rights
Had to agree on this one - the man was excellent - like, very determined to make his point.

The last two years have gotten me interested in reading on basic economics. I am failing to understand what can be done if the government continues to borrow from banks - does that not mean all of the situation is owned by the shareholders of a few wealthy financial corporations? In that case (which is the case) - whatever Obama says, whatever they point out as the obstacles that have been removed - chances are the situation is not getting any better anytime soon.

I say - stay out of debt, think through if you are considering college (choose a degree that will provide you with a particular skill, not a Mickey Mouse degree), save money (either way if you go or do not to college) and keep 'boardin'!


Part-time photographer and currently a catalog printing specialist
11-11-2010 04:18 PM
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
No system is perfect and I agree that those figures are not acceptable. keep in mind however, that those figures are based on selections of worst case scenarios and they do not represent the reality for all Canadians. The media in any country likes sensationalism and figures like these get ratings. For every media story you can produce that shows the "horrors of socialized medicine". I can counter with one that shows how overwhelimngly happy with the system Canadians are.

It may interest you to know that I worked in Canada for one of their largest bulk commodity trucking companies; L.E. Matchet Trucking out of Saskatoon, Sa. As such, I had a Canadian health card and I personally never experienced these issues, not did any of my coworkers or folks I interacted with. I will take the word of every day Canadians over any news story you care to post.

In addition, these figures relay the stats of those with no options other than the base health care. You do know I hope that in Canada, Britain and Australia, the people do have the option to buy private health insurance and can utilize private medical care givers right? Another thing to consider is these systems, you are really dealing with prototypes. We can learn from their shortcomings and avoid their pitfalls when we shift to a single payer system.

Now, to counter your argument, look at the bad side of our system where we have thousands of people die needlessly due to not being able to afford the health care that would save their lives. Also consider how many Americans lose their life savings, homes and retirements due to a medical emergency, People in Canad and elsewhere do not have to ever face this. Given the choice between "two evils" I will take the 18 week wait over losing my house....

On top of that, countries like Australia (which I want to immigrate to) admit their problems and actually take action to solve them unlike American politicians who give lip service to the people while taking bribes from insurance companies and drug manufacturers. Personally, I would rather deal with a country like Australia who openly discusses problems and takes action to solve them.

If you doubt that things there are not better than here, I suggest you tune into their local media and get a feel for the culture...

Homepage | Classic Hits 101.7
Yes I was aware of the private options in Canada. I was of the understanding that the private coverage is only viable in "niche" areas though... plastic surgery, work related injuries, private rooms... and that all "core" care like doc and hospital visits are subject to the national care. I clould use some more schooling..

I agree that our system is TERRIBLE! We absolutely need an overhaul and yes there are far too many politicians that are getting "kickbacks" from those special interest groups. That is one of my major issues with national health care. Look at the way these politicians self-serve now, now imagine them in charge of the health care you receive. I just don't have any confidence that they can get it right. There are many systems in the world better than ours, no denying, but I think with our current system of bloated government greed we have a long, long way to go to get anywhere close. I am no expert but there has to be a better way then entrusting all of our health needs to "elected" officials. I for one want to play a major role in the needs of myself and my family.
11-10-2010 08:26 PM
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Single Payer Universal health care is the way to go. It works very well in every country that has it and eventually America is going to have to adopt it if we want to be competitive on the world economic market. The burden of health care coverage is crippling American industry to compete against out European and Asian counterparts who all have socialized medicine.

Here is a web site that you might find interesting. I suspect there will be some economic figures that will surprise you....

Medicare for All: Home
This is what we would be in for...

CBC News - Health - Wait times for surgery, medical treatments at all-time high: report

Last year I had hand surgery, wait time, 2 days. Also, I had a CT scan, wait time 6 days.
11-09-2010 05:30 PM
Shocktroop531 man. look at the chunk that goes to the pentagon. then look at the parts like health , job training, and education. as far as I'm concerned the Education part and the pentagon part should be flipped. could you imagine the good we could be doing for ourselves if that was true? the military is so bloated and such a fucking waste. spending all this money so we can maintain a worldwide empire that the people don't want. we just want to live our lives.
11-09-2010 05:19 PM
tAo77 Good points on all accounts. We could go back and forth forever, but I don't feel either of us would budge. I admit to a certain amount of paranoia and distrust. Living in the 28% tax bracket and paying around 30k per year in misspent and wasted tax money will put just about anyone there. I am no republican, make no mistake, but I do feel that a strong homeland defense and much, much, less pork are of paramount importance. To me the problem still remains with both parties being to extreme. With the dollar depreciating and China downgrading our credit rating, a longer term recession may be on the horizon. Overspending has been our governments achilles heel for far too long, its time to cap spending and let our economy right itself.
11-09-2010 07:29 AM
snowjeeper your costs are increasing because of the bush tax cuts, i hope you realize that.
11-09-2010 06:46 AM
kysnowboarder I notice the pie chart for spending is just for discretionary spending. Entitlements such as social security, medicare (the one the feds fund) and other entitlements take up the largest part of the budget and these are things that the govt can't really control after all they are entitlements. I fear extending health care to everyone in the country would create a new large entitlement for a service that cost are already sky rocketing. I will admit I have great fear about this, and was relieved when the bill did not provide universal coverage.

None of the ways they purposed to pay for it seem like they would match cost increases, so this would have been an entitlement we couldn't afford. Being someone who did not benefit from the bush tax cuts I can't really afford tax increase...
11-08-2010 10:58 PM
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Okay, I am glad to see you have done your own research and are not what I feared you to be; another right wing zombie.....

I strongly disagree with most of your conclusions but respect the fact that you have thought behind them. I have some comment to make about your points but I am actually dring while posting....

I'll tackle some key points when I get home from work.....

Be safe as posting, texting, surfing whatever while driving is dangerous! Wouldn't want to lose a debate partner.

I know we disagree politically, but there is more to life than politics, namely SNOWBOARDING!
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