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  Topic Review (Newest First)
01-28-2012 09:32 AM
donek
Quote:
Originally Posted by borborygmii View Post
Thanks for the helpful video. One question: assuming we have a correct width board, how do we determine how much heel versus toe overhang we should have for maximum control of our board?
You simply set things up so you can achieve the same board angulation on both toe and heel side of the board. This will allow you to turn as aggressively on both edges.
01-28-2012 09:06 AM
gmore10
Quote:
Originally Posted by borborygmii View Post
Thanks for the helpful video. One question: assuming we have a correct width board, how do we determine how much heel versus toe overhang we should have for maximum control of our board?
What arbor board do you have? I was looking at the roundhouse r x
01-28-2012 08:58 AM
Wiredsport
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimzn View Post
Just measured the overhang with boots on my cousins board that I've been riding thus far and his is 0.5 toe 1.5-2 heel. So I'm gonna leave it as is.

Only difference between our setups is his bindings end at the boards edge, and his boots have an upward curve on both ends.

However my bindings have a strange shape and when angled, they have base plate overhang too. My rear binding is +6 and has no overhang, while forward binding is +15 and has 0.25in base plate overhang. Also my boots don't really have an upward curve.

So on the carpet test I can get up to about a 35 degree angle either side. Anything above is a no go.

Dunno if this will be an issue, and if it is, if it could be remedied by trading the L/XL binding for a M/L. Just don't know if it would fit, as the M/L is rated for 10 boot max.
Hi Crimzn,

With the gear posted above you do not have to worry about a toe/heel drag problem at all at those angles. You owe it to yourself however to at least try riding with equal toe and heel overhang. It can make an enormous difference in your riding. Having a full inch more overhang on one edge than another is far from ideal and I would highly suggest adjusting that.
01-27-2012 10:10 AM
Crimzn Just measured the overhang with boots on my cousins board that I've been riding thus far and his is 0.5 toe 1.5-2 heel. So I'm gonna leave it as is.

Only difference between our setups is his bindings end at the boards edge, and his boots have an upward curve on both ends.

However my bindings have a strange shape and when angled, they have base plate overhang too. My rear binding is +6 and has no overhang, while forward binding is +15 and has 0.25in base plate overhang. Also my boots don't really have an upward curve.

So on the carpet test I can get up to about a 35 degree angle either side. Anything above is a no go.

Dunno if this will be an issue, and if it is, if it could be remedied by trading the L/XL binding for a M/L. Just don't know if it would fit, as the M/L is rated for 10 boot max.
01-27-2012 07:56 AM
Wiredsport
Quote:
Originally Posted by borborygmii View Post
How do we adapt your method to Arbor boards with Griptech? Do we draw an imaginary line alone the non-Griptech sidecut and compare foot measurements to that? I don't think we are supposed to have barefoot overhang over the Griptech bumps.
Grip Tech will rarely require any different adjustment. The symmetrical humps that Arbor uses are very subtle and are smaller in dimension than typical binding adjustments will allow. Magnetraction uses asymmetrical shapes many of which also fall beneath the refinement of binding adjustments. Some of the newer Magnetraction humps we are seeing going into 2013 such as on the Niche snowboards are actually pretty deep and the humps are also quite short. Your foot may not fall "all on" or "all off" of a hump on either toe or heelside (or both) depending on your stance angle and width. In those instances you will still need to have at least partial barefoot overhang at your position. As always, centering the boot (not the binding) on the centerline of the board is the ideal.

We stress this a lot, but toe drag is only one issue in terms of width choice (and is not the most important). Being able to achieve a centerred stance with adequate and balanced leverage is far more important.

Stoked!
01-27-2012 07:25 AM
borborygmii
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wiredsport View Post
...
You will need overhang to be able to apply leverage to your edges and to get the most out of your board. ...
How do we adapt your method to Arbor boards with Griptech? Do we draw an imaginary line alone the non-Griptech sidecut and compare foot measurements to that? I don't think we are supposed to have barefoot overhang over the Griptech bumps.
01-27-2012 07:21 AM
borborygmii
Quote:
Originally Posted by donek View Post
Equal overhang is not what you want. You want the ability to angle the board the same on toe and heel side. You'll notice the maximum overhang on the heel side is much higher than the toe overhang. As a result, you can frequently get away with more overhang on the heel. Watch this video. It will give you some insight.

How to determine the best board width for you. - YouTube
Thanks for the helpful video. One question: assuming we have a correct width board, how do we determine how much heel versus toe overhang we should have for maximum control of our board?
01-26-2012 08:50 PM
Wiredsport Hi guys,

Stoked to hear the good discussion on width, andgles overhang, etc. Here is some info from our fit tips that has been posted here before. I hope it helps:

How wide of a snowboard do I need? Where is the width of a snowboard measured? What does width mean in terms of my boot size?

Let’s start by talking about measurements, because this is where a lot of the confusion arises. The most common width measurement that is provided by manufacturers is "waist". The waist is measured at the narrowest point near the middle of the board (usually). But like with all things in snowboarding, different brands measure different things. Some measure the midpoint between the tip and tail and call that "waist". Others simply provide a measurement they call, "width", but do not really specify what width they are referring to.

If that has you a bit confused, don't worry, because regardless of where these "waist" measurements are taken, they are not very useful for what they are typically used for. Most people think that this measurement is a good indicator of what foot size a board will handle. It is not, and for a simple reason: you do not stand at the waist, you stand at the inserts. A board's waist measurement is always less than the measurement at the inserts and often the difference is significant. Additionally, two boards with the same waist dimension, may have very different measurements at the inserts, depending on each board's sidecut. Measurement at the center insert is a much better way to compare boards for shoe size compatibility, but for some odd reason, manufacturers do not publish this info.

OK, so now we have told you why we think the commonly provided measurements are pretty silly, but what good does that do you? You still need to know how to figure out the correct width for your new board. Well, here comes. There are two easy steps to getting it right every time.

First, measure your bare foot. It is important that you do not try to use a boot size. It is also important that you measure in centimeters, because the board measurements that you will be comparing to will be in cm. Here is the method that we suggest:

Kick your heel (barefoot please, no socks) back against a wall. Mark the floor exactly at the tip of your toe (the one that sticks out furthest - which toe this is will vary by rider). Measure from the mark on the floor to the wall. That is your foot length and is the only measurement that you will want to use. Measure in centimeters if possible, but if not, take inches and multiply by 2.54 (example: an 11.25 inch foot x 2.54 = 28.57 centimeters).

Second, measure the board you are considering. This measurement is easy. It should be taken at the inserts. Try to measure at the inserts that you will be using to achieve your stance position. If you are unsure about this, simply measure at the center of the insert cluster (that will still be very close). Be sure to measure using the base of the board, not the deck. This is important because the sidewalls on many boards are angled in, and will therefore give you a smaller measurement on the deck than on the base. For our example's sake, let's say the measurement is 27.54 at the center insert.

Still with us? You are almost done. You now have a way to compare foot size to board width where it matters, but how do you interpret this info to get the correct width? Well that depends a little on stance angle. If you ride a 0 degree stance, you will want your foot size to be the same as the width of the board at the inserts or up to 1 cm greater. If you ride at an angled stance, you will want to measure the board across at the angles that you will be riding. Again, you will want your foot to at least match this measurement or exceed it by up to 1 cm. So using our example above, this guy has a foot 28.57 cm that exceeds the board with at the inserts 27.54 cm by 1.03 cm at a zero degree angle. But, when he angles his feet to the 15 degree angles that he rides, voila, he has .10 cm of overhang for a perfect fit.

But wait a second. Are we saying that you should have overhang, even with bare feet? Yes. You will need overhang to be able to apply leverage to your edges and to get the most out of your board. 1/2 inch to 3/4 inch of boot overhang for both toe and heel is ideal, and will not create problematic toe or heel drag. Remember that boots typically add 1/2 at both the toe and heel to your foot measurement from above, due to padding, insulation and the outer boot materials. We do not suggest using the boot length to size boards though, as the extra padding etc, cannot be used well to create leverage, that has to come from your foot itself. We highly recommend that riders do not choose boards where their feet do not come to or exceed the real board width.

OK, that's all well and good, but where can you get the information on board width at the inserts if the manufacturers don't provide it? That's easy. Email the store that carries the board(s) that you are considering. Give them your foot length in cm (and your stance width and angles if you know them). They will be able to provide you with the width at the inserts that you will be using and can factor in your stance angle as well to get you the exact overhang that you will have with bare feet.

PS:

Once mounted, the best way to test is to put your (tightly laced) boots into your bindings and strap them in tightly. It is important that you have the heel pulled all the way back into the bindings heel cup or the test won’t help. On a carpeted floor place your board flat on its base. Kneel behind the heelside edge and lift that edge so that it rests on your knees and so that the toeside edge is angled down into the carpet. Now press down with both hands using firm pressure, one hand on each of the boots. This will compress the board's sidecut and simulate a turn on hard snow. You can change the angle of the board on your knees to become progressively steeper and you will be able to see at what angle you will start getting toe drag. You will want to repeat the test for your heelside as well. If you are not getting drag at normal turn and landing angles, then you are good to go.

PPS:

Also a note about boots: Boot design plays a big role in toe drag as does binding ramping and binding base height. Boots that have a solid bevel at the toe/heel drag less. Many freestyle boots push for more surface contact and reduce bevel. This helps with contact, but if you have a lot of overhang with those boots it hurts in terms of toe drag.

Now go ride!
01-26-2012 08:41 PM
Unowned
Quote:
Originally Posted by donek View Post
Equal overhang is not what you want. You want the ability to angle the board the same on toe and heel side. You'll notice the maximum overhang on the heel side is much higher than the toe overhang. As a result, you can frequently get away with more overhang on the heel. Watch this video. It will give you some insight.

How to determine the best board width for you. - YouTube
very technical and informative...thanks.
01-26-2012 08:27 PM
donek Equal overhang is not what you want. You want the ability to angle the board the same on toe and heel side. You'll notice the maximum overhang on the heel side is much higher than the toe overhang. As a result, you can frequently get away with more overhang on the heel. Watch this video. It will give you some insight.

How to determine the best board width for you. - YouTube
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