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Thread: Union Force vs Burton Cartels Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-09-2013 01:10 AM
Triple8Sol I'm not a Burton guy but after demoing their Cartels last season, that would be a clear choice imo. Have owned several pairs of Forces and although I liked them at first, they have been seriously outclassed by their competitors the last few seasons.
09-08-2013 12:23 AM
Mystery2many
Quote:
Originally Posted by jwelsh83 View Post
Yeah, you're referring to the 2013 and older Unions. They revamped the toe straps on all Union models and added push pins to some. Is it an overall fix? I couldn't tell you. I coughed up some dough for a pair of the 2014 Atlas and 2014 Contacts and to me, the toe straps are easier to get out of than my 2012 flites. Most people don't have a clue unless they do their own homework and get off their ass and into a shop and do the dirty work. Everybody wants to take the golden word of the internet..."I saw it on the internet, so it must be true"
Your right about that. I've messed with the new contact pro at Peter Glenn and I'm impressed. But personal experience is the best review one could have.
09-07-2013 10:48 PM
jwelsh83
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystery2many View Post
I have had both but sold the cartels because they were too stiff for me. What kind of riding do you do? And what kind of stiffness are you looking for?

I ride the 2013 force and I love how it feels but toe strap is a pain in the ass to pop loose riding up to the lift. If you can deal with that, then that's what I would suggest.
Yeah, you're referring to the 2013 and older Unions. They revamped the toe straps on all Union models and added push pins to some. Is it an overall fix? I couldn't tell you. I coughed up some dough for a pair of the 2014 Atlas and 2014 Contacts and to me, the toe straps are easier to get out of than my 2012 flites. Most people don't have a clue unless they do their own homework and get off their ass and into a shop and do the dirty work. Everybody wants to take the golden word of the internet..."I saw it on the internet, so it must be true"
09-07-2013 09:31 PM
Nivek Where are you reading that I said your recommendation or opinion was wrong? I dont see it. I see where I point out things you call opinions are indeed facts.

Your "opinion" about more boardflex is wrong based on physics. You compared flex numbers between brands, then denied it. And you gave your experience with their durability. I didn't say yours was wrong, simply gave mine as well. Then I gave my personal opinion.

Someones angry I called them out on the interwebz!
09-07-2013 05:07 PM
Steezus Christ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivek View Post
Burton's ReFlex lets the whole binding bend in the middle... Union still has a solid disc. Which do you think has a bigger dead spot? Oh and I'VE OWNED BOTH (all caps for dramatic effect). ReFlex works more.


Should we all re-read what you wrote?




Yeah I think I did offer my opinion. And called out your koolaid bullshit.
you cant argue against somebodies personal preferences. there is literally no way of disproving it. I prefer to ride union. that's it. tell me more about how much you prefer burtons, I'm not arguing that they're bad bindings. just in my own experience, I prefer the forces.
09-06-2013 11:31 PM
Nivek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steezus Christ View Post
if that's the case, than how does burton's reflex technology have any more credibility over unions? all a marketing gimmick right?
Burton's ReFlex lets the whole binding bend in the middle... Union still has a solid disc. Which do you think has a bigger dead spot? Oh and I'VE OWNED BOTH (all caps for dramatic effect). ReFlex works more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steezus Christ View Post
not between brands, just between burton.
Should we all re-read what you wrote?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steezus Christ View Post
I would choose a pair of malavitas (with a flex of 6, that better match with a board that flexes at a 5) for freestyle over cartels (that have a flex of 7).
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steezus Christ View Post
forces and cartels are up there amongst some of the most sought after bindings on the market, so obviously ur going to have the never ending argument between the fans of both. why not just offer ur own opinion on the bindings instead of calling out peoples "bullshit" that's based off of their own personal experiences with the bindings. Ive ridden all 3 plus more and I found the forces most suitable for me. why are u even trying to argue that?
Yeah I think I did offer my opinion. And called out your koolaid bullshit.
09-06-2013 09:54 PM
Steezus Christ
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivek View Post
This whole % of the baseplate thing touching the board is more marketing than real effect. It does something, but not as drastic as Union claims. And guess what, you get more board flex out of these Cartels you're talking about than the Force. ReFlex home slice.
if that's the case, than how does burton's reflex technology have any more credibility over unions? all a marketing gimmick right?


Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivek View Post
For starters, are you really comparing numbered flexes between brands?
not between brands, just between burton.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nivek View Post
Anyway, I did all that for arguments sake, and to call out bullshit.
forces and cartels are up there amongst some of the most sought after bindings on the market, so obviously ur going to have the never ending argument between the fans of both. why not just offer ur own opinion on the bindings instead of calling out peoples "bullshit" that's based off of their own personal experiences with the bindings. Ive ridden all 3 plus more and I found the forces most suitable for me. why are u even trying to argue that?
09-06-2013 09:23 PM
Mystery2many
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extremo View Post
Odd, I found the Cartel's baseplate comparable, the toe strap more responsive, the ankle strap softer, and the high-back more flexible. I think the overall flex of the Force was a tad stiffer. This thread has turned stupid.
Well I can't say you didn't feel what you felt. They were overly responsive for my style of riding. The high back caused pressure points when doing certain tricks and didn't have enough playful flex for my liking. The person I sold them to rides hard and fast and he loves the stiffness. I would not say the force bindings are overly flexible neither, especially compared to my ride rodeo bindings. But they gave me a much more even flex that doesn't cause pain.

As for toe strap response. I honestly can't say that I would notice the difference.
09-06-2013 09:17 PM
Nivek
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steezus Christ View Post
the baseplates on the forces have been designed so that only 20% of the base actually makes contact with the board, thus allowing for a more natural board flex. if the OP was riding EST cartels with an EST board, than maybe perhaps it could allow for a more natural flex but last time I checked a skate banana doesn't use EST.
This whole % of the baseplate thing touching the board is more marketing than real effect. It does something, but not as drastic as Union claims. And guess what, you get more board flex out of these Cartels you're talking about than the Force. ReFlex home slice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steezus Christ View Post
*"cartels are better suited for an all-mountain style of riding as apposed to freestyle" - Nope. - im not saying that Cartels are no good for freestyle, just saying I prefer the forces in the park. and if it came down to it, I would choose a pair of malavitas (with a flex of 6, that better match with a board that flexes at a 5) for freestyle over cartels (that have a flex of 7).
For starters, are you really comparing numbered flexes between brands? And between bindings and boards on top of that? Good hell. Not to mention you clearly haven't actually ridden the Cartels or Malavitas. And you trust manufacturers websites too. Just winning. The Cartel is softer than the Malavita. This became pretty clear last season.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steezus Christ View Post
I've had very few if any complaints at all about the union forces.
Good for you. I had plenty. And our parts box was empty by January. I personally never had an issue with the 3 pairs I owned. As in they always stayed functional. There were things that broke, but nothing that made the bindings unrideable.

Anyway, I did all that for arguments sake, and to call out bullshit.

OP: Both will fit that board great. I wouldn't get the 2013 Forces though, shoot for 2014. I can't imagine the changes completely fucked the way it rides, so it can't be anything except better. Better toe strap, better shaped heelcup, better heel dampening.

That said, if it were me (except it wouldn't be cause I hate the Banana), Cartels.
09-06-2013 07:51 PM
Extremo
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystery2many View Post
My cartels felt much stiffer and less playful then my forces.
Odd, I found the Cartel's baseplate comparable, the toe strap more responsive, the ankle strap softer, and the high-back more flexible. I think the overall flex of the Force was a tad stiffer. This thread has turned stupid.
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