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Thread: Foot Steering / Foot Peddling vs Shoulder Steering Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
09-21-2010 08:34 PM
anti-bling No, its only instructor-nazi talk. If you can get down blacks with style and ease, then go with what works for you.
09-20-2010 11:02 PM
mattus123 i didnt even know riding was broken up into 'shoudler steering' and 'foot steering'
the easier the run is, the less i use my shoudlers to turn
but wen riding blacks, i use my shoudlers to help with the turn
thats jsut what comes naturally to me, i dont consciously decide to use my shoudlers or not

or have i completely missed the point of this thread :P
09-19-2010 09:57 PM
SnowProRick Snowolf has done a good job explaining the AASI way and why we teach that (especially to beginners). Another thing we try to do is teach to multiple learning styles. We have simple, easy to follow (meant for non-snowboarders) videos at our site. Take a look at the beginner progression. It does a good job explaining both how and why.

How to snowboard We also have a nice "How to carve" video.

--rick
Snowprofessor.com
09-15-2010 10:55 AM
gjsnowboarder
Quote:
Originally Posted by AAA View Post
+1 (generally) on the shoulders squared with the feet vs. the board. (Though back in the day we rode nock-kneed with our shoulders squared to the nose...showing my age.) Some of the riders in the video look to have a slightly forward stance, which "should" place their shoulders rotated more forward than with a duck stance. When carving at speed, it behooves a rider to have some forward upper body alignment, IMO, for the simple purpose to see where they're going on heelside carves. I ride hardboots with near 60 degree angles and so have a pretty forward shoulder alignment. I still feel I crane my neck an aweful lot on heelsides to glance uphill on the lookout to keep from being creamed by some rogue straightliner. I imagine that kind of vigil would be murder carving hard with a duck stance while standing dead sideways.

The caveat with shoulder alignment comes from the EC guys, who use alot of over rotation in carving. You don't need to be doing full laid out carves with this to have a blast with the riding style. Transitions especially are fun, when (often) the board is just beginning to carve back uphill and go airborn/weightless as you suck the knees in, while your upper body twists the other way and is diving downhill. Kind of a game of throwing your body into the hill and having the board carve around to catch you before faceplanting. The over rotation seems to let you pull crazy tight carves, too.

YouTube - Lifted Raceboard
In the case of carving there is no rotation. Anytime you cause rotation while riding it will cause the board to pivot on the snow. This rate of pivot is at a different speed then the arc of the turn causing the tip and tail of the board to follow different paths in the snow. this will cause a skid in the turn. In the video in the youtube link you will see the riders dive deep into there turns. With the steepness of the hill, the side radius of the board and the flex/extension in their body they are creating the turning forces necessary to create the massive amount of tilt you are seeing. This engages the crazy side radius of the board. Because of that tightness of turn it appears they are rotating but all that is happening is they are staying roughly in alignment during the course of the turn. In carving you limit the amount of pivot, increase the amount of tilt, manage the pressure forces in the turn and micromange with twist when applicable(typically all carve turns deal with both feet tilting the board but it is possible to use twist to engage or finish or modify a turn with out changing the path of the nose and tail of the board from each other). In the case of these race boards twist is almost impossible to achieve due to the torsional stiffness and the forward angle setting of the bindings.

By the way I love the video it speaks to part of snowboarding soul.
09-15-2010 12:00 AM
skip11 Thanks for all the detailed reply guys.. gonna make sure I keep this in mind when season starts
09-14-2010 09:51 PM
AAA +1 (generally) on the shoulders squared with the feet vs. the board. (Though back in the day we rode nock-kneed with our shoulders squared to the nose...showing my age.) Some of the riders in the video look to have a slightly forward stance, which "should" place their shoulders rotated more forward than with a duck stance. When carving at speed, it behooves a rider to have some forward upper body alignment, IMO, for the simple purpose to see where they're going on heelside carves. I ride hardboots with near 60 degree angles and so have a pretty forward shoulder alignment. I still feel I crane my neck an aweful lot on heelsides to glance uphill on the lookout to keep from being creamed by some rogue straightliner. I imagine that kind of vigil would be murder carving hard with a duck stance while standing dead sideways.

The caveat with shoulder alignment comes from the EC guys, who use alot of over rotation in carving. You don't need to be doing full laid out carves with this to have a blast with the riding style. Transitions especially are fun, when (often) the board is just beginning to carve back uphill and go airborn/weightless as you suck the knees in, while your upper body twists the other way and is diving downhill. Kind of a game of throwing your body into the hill and having the board carve around to catch you before faceplanting. The over rotation seems to let you pull crazy tight carves, too.

YouTube - Lifted Raceboard
09-14-2010 01:03 AM
anti-bling
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip11 View Post

I have another question to ask, with any rocker board I heard people say ride your board more centered. So that means there's no this weight towards the nose at initiation at the turn and gradually more pressure on the back foot at the end?
Thats what i figured out the hard way. Aggressive front-foot riding doesn't work well on my rockered board, i just go over the handlebars. But i suppose that will differ a bit with all the different types of rockers out there, and the front-back movement might just be more subtle.

Until board profiles becomes somewhat standardized, just see what works for you and the board you are on.
09-14-2010 12:42 AM
skip11 I guess you're right but I ride with +15, -9 so it's not really an extreme angle where you totally face downhill.

I have another question to ask, with any rocker board I heard people say ride your board more centered. So that means there's no this weight towards the nose at initiation at the turn and gradually more pressure on the back foot at the end?
09-14-2010 12:18 AM
anti-bling
Quote:
Originally Posted by skip11 View Post
"When you turn, you initiate from the waist. Of course, that means your upper body leads a bit and your shoulders won't be parallel. Thats fine. Its just natural riding." Does this include duck stance or are you referring to the forward stance example (the waist iniatiation)?
In general, it refers to any stance. When your turn your hips, the upper body turns with it (The part about your shoulders being parallel with the board is specifically about duck tho)


Quote:
Originally Posted by skip11 View Post
So you're saying that when changing from heel to toe because the shoulders have opened up they tend not to close up as much?
No, i think that people are just more comfortable facing downhill, and get into that habit, even if its a bit counter-productive. Just like when beginners want to lean on their back foot when riding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skip11 View Post
For me personally, I'm more comfortable if my shoulders are perpendicular to my front foot (or just a bit less) instead of totally parallel with the board.
Its not that bad of a habit, every one does it to an extent. But it does compromise a bit of extra power from your legs, as well as make it a little awkward to initiate FS turns when you are already facing that way.
09-13-2010 10:41 PM
skip11 "When you turn, you initiate from the waist. Of course, that means your upper body leads a bit and your shoulders won't be parallel. Thats fine. Its just natural riding." Does this include duck stance or are you referring to the forward stance example (the waist iniatiation)?

So you're saying that when changing from heel to toe because the shoulders have opened up they tend not to close up as much?

For me personally, I'm more comfortable if my shoulders are perpendicular to my front foot (or just a bit less) instead of totally parallel with the board.
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