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Thread: Decided on shovel, pack, beacon now need a probe? Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-16-2011 10:41 AM
Originally Posted by skian View Post
I'm done with this one. You be safe out there. Hope you never need a 360.
Me too...
12-16-2011 10:22 AM
skian I'm done with this one. You be safe out there. Hope you never need a 360.
12-16-2011 08:05 AM
Originally Posted by Sick-Pow View Post
killclimz let something go? that is funny.
Hey pot, kettle over here...
12-16-2011 07:54 AM
killclimbz I linked you to a "real" world scenario. I don't agree with sick-pow very often, but he's dead on in his scenario.

I don't use D handle shovels btw. Doesn't fit well in my pack. I want a shovel I am going to be able to use...
12-15-2011 05:31 PM
Sick-Pow killclimz let something go? that is funny.

240 for me in CO.

if i was back in tahoe, 300 minimum not this month though.....ha!~
12-15-2011 05:25 PM
skian I work with professionals to but don't feel the need to name drop here. You have turned a "what is your opinion" personal. We can go back and forth all day long. All those guys are sharp and also know their stuff. I know a few of those names. You have your opinion and I have mine. Carry your 300 I'll stick with my 240 unless im doing pit work. Light is right weight is great. Makes no difference Maritime, Continental or other. YOU DONT NEED A THREE HUNDRED in real world scenarios. Man glad we didn't get into a discussion on whether you need a D handle shovel or not. That could of got out of control. You be safe out there. I think we can let this one go.
12-15-2011 04:47 PM
killclimbz After working with several of the best professionals in the business. Ben Pritchard, Ethan Greene, Hacksaw, and others. I'll take their opinion. I think a 240cm probe is better than not having one. I don't agree with your generalization. Everything we bring out into the backcountry safety wise, is for the worst case scenario, when all else fails.

As far as for the report. The Northwest avalanche center does have a write up for it. You can read the PDF here. The first hand report which goes into more detail located on TGR here.

Without a 300cm probe, the victim would have likely been dead. You are telling me that these "casual backcountry users" shouldn't have been carrying a 300cm probe? This is why your statement is a dangerous generalization.

A 240cm probe is appropriate for a continental climate. You can argue it's okay for an intermountain climate. For a Maritime climate, a 300 cm probe is much more appropriate...
12-15-2011 04:20 PM
skian Look I respect your view, over the last 20 year i have developed a different one. I am in full agreement that a beacon probe and shovel are essential tools along with your brain from education which is really the key to safety not the tools or length of them. First is education, then If you just have a beacon evac can take 1-2 hours add a shovel cut that in half add a probe cut that in half. All four together are essential. There is no where out there to support necessity of a 300 over a 240 for the average bc rider. Avalanches suck only when you throw a human in there. One statistic we should all be looking at out there is how many of those human triggered slides where done when the conditions were not favorable. These tools are nothing if you don't know how to use them properly. Freak accident or not people need to learn to follow their skin tracks back instead of just jumping in. LIke to hear somebody way in that one has ever dug down three meters in an ablation zone and how long it took them and two can find some support to back your statement. Nothing wrong with carrying a 240. It's having the tool and knowing how to use it that is important.
12-15-2011 03:57 PM
killclimbz Since it is not a death, I can not pull a report from the avalanche database. Only the CAIC maintains reports for Colorado that include close calls.

Do a search at TGR in the forums. Baker burial or Baker avalanche should pull it up.

Avalanche debris in maritime and intercontinental climates can bury deep. How is it overkill to have a 300cm probe? 2 ounces? The weight penalty as I said is negligible and if you run into the situation where you need it, you'll be glad you had it.
12-15-2011 03:42 PM
Originally Posted by killclimbz View Post
I disagree with you whole heartedly. There have been several rescues in the last 10 years where the 300cm probe made the difference. The last one I remember being at Baker. 3 maybe 4 years ago. Snowboarder got buried and got buried deep. I think it was off of chair 8(?) where at times you are required to have full avy gear and a partner. His partner could not locate him. Two other skiers came upon this located the buried person with their beacons and got a probe strike at the very end of the reach of their 300cm probe. They managed to dig the guy out alive.

Take it for what you will, but in deeper snow packs I recommend a 300cm probe. The weight penalty is negligible compared to the heart ache if you actually need one.
Beauty of the web, Everyone is entitle to their opinion. I think your scenario is a very limited one. Also would like to see that report. Glad it made a difference but for the common BC skier think its overkill. Do you know what the probability in a rescue deeper than 3m is?
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