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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-29-2008 06:04 PM
sedition
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmies View Post
...before finding a 167cm Burton Baron on the side of the road...

Oh, Mr. Right...I know what you are thinking!
03-29-2008 05:37 PM
bmies I kinda hope that the discussion in this thread gets stickied or put under a generally sticky. The information here is certainly very usefull.

A brief story on board size...

I am 5'10" , 208 , size 11 boot , and 98% of the time I spend out of the park.

I had only ridden a handful of times (varying lengths) before finding a 167cm Burton Baron on the side of the road about 3 years ago. As soon as nobody claimed that board, I started going riding alot (~20 first season, ~50 trips last year, ~30 this year). From barely barely being able to link turns to feeling confident on hardest inbounds east coast runs, I've learned entirely on that long, wide, pretty stiff board. Well, I bought a new board, a Rome Slash 158cm, a few weeks ago. The trip prior to the new board getting here, I tore the meniscus in my knee. I've been on the new board twice since then and have been limited to smooth carving as the bumps, jumps, and spins hurt like hell. This type of riding is where the longer, stiffer board should shine, but I could'nt be happier with the choice to buy a shorter, flexier board (I am approaching the limit of it's weight range). The Slash is plenty stable at speed, changes direction much faster, holds an edge well, spins so much better (I had to try it once), is more forgiving on landings (had to try that too), and just generally feels like a great ride. It took me maybe one run to get used to the way it felt. And the last time I was out, I carved a masterpiece on an inch of fresh snow, nice arcs with little gaps of nothing in the transitions, lovely. In other words, don't worry about getting a bit shorter in length. This is one area where the extra inches arent always better.

I've already decided to make the old board a splitboard, it'll be reserved for deep powder days and backcountry use only.
03-28-2008 09:11 PM
thelowerclass As for if you should get a beginner, intermediate, or advanced board I think thats where you need to honestly ask yourself how quick a learner you are. If you're going to take 2 or 3 years to become an intermediate rider get a beginner board, but if you think you'll be intermediate in a season get an advanced board because you'll learn to use it quick enough, plus by the time you're ready to use it to its full potential it will be broken in for you.
03-28-2008 03:51 PM
Bones It's hard to go back with the base bevel. Much easier to grind a 1 degree down to a 3 degree than visa versa.
03-28-2008 03:23 PM
fostpaint So dumb question for anyone who knows more than me (should be easy):

Can a board with a 2 or 3 degree base bevel get tuned/ground to something more agressive (1 degree)? I'm seeing that Illusion I was looking at has a 3 degree base bevel, and I imagine I'll hate it once I get more comfortable at faster speeds on the icy east coast.
03-28-2008 01:22 PM
fostpaint
Quote:
Originally Posted by 604al View Post
Excellent advice here... just to add, I think you'd be fine on a 252 waist width or possibly a 250 depending on your stance as I've used a 252 width with size 11.5 boots and a 21" stance with 15, -6 angles with no problems. At your height you'd probably be using at least a 22" stance.

The difference between intermediate boards and beginner boards that would hinder your learning would be stiffness/flex (where the board be alot more sensitive to every input you give it) & bevel (a 90, or 0 bevel would also be more sensitive). At this point you don't need to worry about sidecut, shape (twin, directional), base.

In summary, if you're looking for a board RIGHT NOW I'd suggest:
- AT LEAST something 40% off, in the $150-$300 range
- 158-164 in length
- 252 waist or bigger
- mid-level flex (check the websites and compare boards), which usually means an all-mountain or park board

Specific suggestions off the top of my head are 159 Atomic Pivots and Axums on Ebay right now that are going for around $180 shipped.
Thanks for the advice. I'm going to take my boots down to the board shop and find out how various widths set up with them, just to get a sense. As to the buying a board "RIGHT NOW", I think it's more like "by next season." I've seen a lot of 40-50% off, and some 60%. I don't know how much more sellers are going to come down on the 07/08 stuff, but don't want to wait so long that everything is sold out, you know? I've got an August birthday, so I might be able to weasel some gear in then.
03-28-2008 01:15 PM
fostpaint
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
You've obviously done your research and you've ridden a few boards. Kudos, you're way ahead of the curve.
Thanks. Hands on research is the only way I'd want to drop money on something like this.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
If you can tell the difference between the boards you've ridden, but find that you can't do some things on one that you can do on another, I'd really suggest you invest some moeny in lessons. No offense, but no board will "prevent" you doing anything (except maybe catching an edge on rails/boxes)
Actually, I've been doing lessons. The big thing I noticed between one board to the other was that the Rossignol was really easy to drop from a "stop" position into a line by shifting weight, whereas the Cruzer was not at all easy to do that with, and required me to work on my torsional flex technique (not a bad thing, since it's good technique but noticeably different). Both were similar length boards, so I assumed it had something to do with either the width of my stance or sidecut, but really don't know.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
I know that sounds pretty pompous, but think of it as research. You're prepared to drop a lot of coin on a setup, make sure that you don't buy a board that merely compensates for today's riding style but not next year's. I've got a friend who rides totally counter-rotated and always skids his turns. You can't tell him anything and he spends money on boards like it's going out of style. Always looking for that perfect combination of edge bevel, sidecut radius and flex that will allow him to carve prefect turns. Well, duh...it's not the board!
I'm trying to look a couple years down the road without killing myself today, so you're on the money with my dilemma.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
Without anything to compare it to, it's going to be hard to make the choice on spec's alone. I have no idea what the flex rating of my board is, I'd have to look it up and even then, I won't know if that number is comparable from brand to brand. But I can tell that this board is softer or that board is stiffer when I ride it.
::nod:: Stiffness I figure I'll have to handle and test in a board shop. Just trying to make sure there's no other tech I should be worried about. I mean, I can grab a K2 illusion for $100 right now, and a Never Summer System or Burton Custom for $300+. I want to make sure I'm not missing anything on the "cheap" board.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
Maybe buy a cheap board (or rent something you can get spec's on) and learn what you hate/like about it? Then you'll know that you want something longer than this, stiffer that that, wider than this, etc.
Trying, my friend. It seems my options are rent SUPER entry level boards or demo a mid-to-advanced level board. The "decent" beginner to intermediate boards don't really seem to be hitting the rental/demo counters.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bones View Post
You're obviously prepared to invest time and money and getting the perfect setup probably isn't going to happen on your first purchase. You'll probably be buying another in a few seasons.
Absolutely something I'm ok with, as long as I get more than, say, 10 days out of my "beginner" set up. If I spend less on my board set up than the rentals for the same time period costs me, then I'm fine with it (my wife might be another story, but I'll cross *that* bridge when I get there. :P).
03-28-2008 12:42 PM
Bones
Quote:
Originally Posted by fostpaint View Post
, but I can't say I still quite "get" what I should be looking at or looking for in my first board. I've been boarding a couple times, ridden the Burton LTR, Cruzer and some Rossignol board
You've obviously done your research and you've ridden a few boards. Kudos, you're way ahead of the curve.

If you can tell the difference between the boards you've ridden, but find that you can't do some things on one that you can do on another, I'd really suggest you invest some moeny in lessons. No offense, but no board will "prevent" you doing anything (except maybe catching an edge on rails/boxes)

I know that sounds pretty pompous, but think of it as research. You're prepared to drop a lot of coin on a setup, make sure that you don't buy a board that merely compensates for today's riding style but not next year's. I've got a friend who rides totally counter-rotated and always skids his turns. You can't tell him anything and he spends money on boards like it's going out of style. Always looking for that perfect combination of edge bevel, sidecut radius and flex that will allow him to carve prefect turns. Well, duh...it's not the board!

Without anything to compare it to, it's going to be hard to make the choice on spec's alone. I have no idea what the flex rating of my board is, I'd have to look it up and even then, I won't know if that number is comparable from brand to brand. But I can tell that this board is softer or that board is stiffer when I ride it.

Maybe buy a cheap board (or rent something you can get spec's on) and learn what you hate/like about it? Then you'll know that you want something longer than this, stiffer that that, wider than this, etc.

You're obviously prepared to invest time and money and getting the perfect setup probably isn't going to happen on your first purchase. You'll probably be buying another in a few seasons.
03-28-2008 12:11 PM
604al Excellent advice here... just to add, I think you'd be fine on a 252 waist width or possibly a 250 depending on your stance as I've used a 252 width with size 11.5 boots and a 21" stance with 15, -6 angles with no problems. At your height you'd probably be using at least a 22" stance.

The difference between intermediate boards and beginner boards that would hinder your learning would be stiffness/flex (where the board be alot more sensitive to every input you give it) & bevel (a 90, or 0 bevel would also be more sensitive). At this point you don't need to worry about sidecut, shape (twin, directional), base.

In summary, if you're looking for a board RIGHT NOW I'd suggest:
- AT LEAST something 40% off, in the $150-$300 range
- 158-164 in length
- 252 waist or bigger
- mid-level flex (check the websites and compare boards), which usually means an all-mountain or park board

Specific suggestions off the top of my head are 159 Atomic Pivots and Axums on Ebay right now that are going for around $180 shipped.
03-28-2008 11:44 AM
sedition
Quote:
Originally Posted by fostpaint View Post
What will I outgrow in a "beginner" board as my skills progress? What in an "intermediate" board will make it harder for me to learn (and easier for me to hurt myself.:P)? (and what's the real difference between beginner and intermediate boards)
IMHO, the major difference between a beginner board and a intermediate board is stiffness and quality. However, is you stick the brands that have been mentioned, you'll be all set for quality. Even their "low end" boards are great rides. As to stiffness...new riders don't go that fast. Hence, a soft board that turns easy makes learning much quicker. However, soft boards can be rather unstable at speed. Hence, once you are able to go a lot faster, you might want a board that is more stable (i.e. stiffer) at speed. Also, a longer board will go faster than a shorter one, but is a bit hard to meanuver. That said, often people start out on a shorter, softer board and move up to one that is a bit longer and stiffer. Therein, is the difference between a beginner board, and an intermediate/advanced board.

However, these are only guidelines. Many people, including myself, deviate from them. Most of the time I ride a short, soft pure-freestyle board all over the mountain. No question, it is a bit shaky at speed, but I've been riding a long time and no how to make the best of that. The compromise is also something I am willing to live with. My housemate hates my board for the exact reasons I love it. He rides a much longer and stiffer board. Also, most new riders are not able to grasp the nuances of the various tech stuff that goes into a board. I know for me it was a few seasons before I was able to really tap into that stuff in a real way. My guess is that that holds true for most new riders.

So, what can you take away from all this? The truth is, you wont really know what board is "perfect" for you until you have both been riding for awhile, and have ridden a number of different boards. I've been riding for 20 years, and I still don't know what board is "perfect." Do some research (and you clearly have), use some common sense, but don't worry about getting too hung up on tech specs at this point.

Hope this helps somewhat
-Chris
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