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Thread: snowolf - how NOT to do skidded turns on ice Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
03-29-2012 10:52 AM
XR4Ti I spent a whole day at the hill this year practicing riding switch, right from skating/chairlifts to bombing/carving so I spent some time recalling the thought processes when I was first learning to ride.

Not saying this will work for you, but it did for me when I was in the "get lots of mileage in now" stage. If you look at really good carving technique (lots easier in vids nowadays) or the tracks left in the snow, you will notice something instructors never cover. That is, to get on your opposite edge well in advance of your turn (ok, in reality you are carrying lots of speed and beginning your turn much earlier, but that's not the way it looks/feels when you are first getting into it).

Once you have advanced to the point you are at now, to get further, don't ride to the end of the traverse, go flat to point down the hill, and then get on the edge. Basically, halfway through your traverse, get on that opposite edge. You will continue to traverse, and then initiate your turn. People call it stuff like "being more aggressive" with your speed or approach and "commitment", but really that's all it is.

There's other subtleties like less traverse, more down, and that the edge change is really when the turn begins but I find the simpler, the better. Think about getting on that opposite edge, and then you can turn as aggressively or passively as you like.

As I say, this worked for me to get my body to do what my brain wanted. Don't know if it will work for anyone else but I figured I'd pass it along.
03-28-2012 04:39 PM
Intheshit that is hard packed granular where I am from, not ice.

you need to use the entire surface area of your board. That means pressuring the tip and tail using the outsides of your feet and your knees. (press outwards)

also, you need to steer through your turns. Your timing is off. You are rotating fast and washing out the majority of your turn. There needs to be a happy medium between the rotation and the wash so that you are actually changing direction while rotating.

maybe think about yourself going down the hill and not just being on the hill. for example, my turn is a hook in front of me, i see exactly where i want to go the entire time. This is different from simply performing the motions that keep you on top of the board. Put more pressure on your leading leg, as a teacher i would not even care if you were doing it way wrong so long as you got used to steering with your front hip.

practice riding around with your lead leg bent and your back leg more or less straight, that should line you up with the slope of the hill and give you some shape to your turns

--not to mention a work out.
03-19-2012 12:38 PM
Casual Hi Vicky,

Let me give you a few tips that I have not seen in this thread yet. Firstly, I was unable to watch the video but I get the point from what others said. I've been riding for 24 years in every condition and terrain imaginable and let me tell you this... Ice sucks, simple as that. I personally ride a lot of park, so my edges are as dull as they come, so when it comes to ice I have no chance but my tactic is to bomb, not advisable to new riders or the weak of heart. Here are my suggestions:

1. If you ride a lot of icey conditions, make sure you have sharp edges. Just be very careful not to hook them on hardpack when your getting too relaxed (always get your toes/heels off the ground so you dont catch)

2. Stay off the middle of the run. When it starts getting icy, its usually much worse in the middle of the run, 95% of the riders fly down the middle. If you move over to the tree line I bet you can find some nice snow (it all gets kicked over there) and it might not even be icy at all.

3. try some runs that are not as busy. Ice is more often found on the busier runs, so the less travelled paths might be in better condition.

4. Do not get discouraged, just do your best and know that you will be that much better on the next snowday!

good luck!!
03-14-2012 11:55 PM
srdeo Also try to get a damper board, i think it should help with knees. And it will be better on ice.
Something like frostbite edges (burton) can help on ice also

But i think riding on icy condition is like driving a car thru loose conditions like they do in rally cars.
Rally cars slide (drift) their turns because it gives them most control. If you are already sliding you dont loose much control when it slides little more. Worst moment is when you are locked in a carving turn and loose grip all of sudden.

I think you can also trying to switch edges little slower. Transition seems too quick (more like kicking to change direction). You seem to be much smoother with the transition in the old video. It's like driving on ice or snow. When you change lane you have to it more gradual if you do it too quick you lose control.

Also board has to line up more with the direction you are moving.
Think of it as your board is always straight (kind of like bombing down the hill... it point to direction you want to go). in carving turns, Board edge angle combinded with board flex and side cut make the board turn. At same side cut more angle+ more board flex means tighter turns. There really is no steering, you steer thru board flex and side cut (reason why stiffer board are easier to carve). Not by kicking your back foot or not by lifting back foot and moving it over (twisting).

Also try to make bigger/wider turns (more traversing). Your whole turn (from apex of heelside turn to apex of toeside) is about 20ft wide. To carve that tight you would be draggin your elbows on the snow. You need more grip(better snow condition) to make tigher turns so making bigger turn will help you in carving.

If you know someone who can carve really well ask them to make slow wide carving turns and follow them. You will learn where to initiate turns, what to do in the turn, where to get out of the turn, when to switch edge etc. You will realize it is completely different from skidded turn.

Risers can help if you already know how to carving, i dont think it will make someone carve all of sudden. You first have to learn to use your edges first.
In your case, riser may help with your knees since alot of them provide dampening. Dampness of a board is like having shock absorber in your car. If there is nothing to absorb the bumps your back is probably going to be real sore after driving.

Don't discourage yourself too much. I think you are doing really good for someone with one year of riding.
If it was easy, it would not be as fun to learn.
03-14-2012 01:05 PM
mixie ^^^What he said. I got 2 guy friends over 50 with new knees. They kick serious ass at both biking and running and race triathlons as a hobby (!) I'm facing a similar choice myself--Have my hip resurfaced with in a year a two or face full replacement in 5-10 years... Im rapidly approaching 40 but I've been doing sports and other dumb shit since I was a child and have the wear and tear to prove it... Advil in the morning. Ice at night. It's just how it goes. I'm hoping modern medicine will come thru for me

This weekend will be a lot better. Big Bear should be getting some snow this weekend. It's about time! enjoy!
03-14-2012 03:38 AM
wrathfuldeity
Quote:
Originally Posted by firstx1017 View Post
lol @ snowolf - okay, I read over your post three times and all I can think of is, "how will this old lady remember ALL THAT???"

If I can just conquer the leaning and big S-turns and try to get higher on my edge I will consider my snowboarding a success as that seems low impact yet enough to have fun. At this age and with my sore knee - after 4 hours I have to go back to the condo and ice it and it really is painful, the next day I can usually only handle 2 hours and I'm done - carving just isn't going to be on my "bucket list" - nor is "bombing" down a hill! lol

My goal when I started was to just get down any blue run without freaking out and it being "fun" and to be relaxed and not tense.

We have three more weekends before the lease is up on the condo and then I will have to continue this drama next year! :-)

I just want to make the most out of these next few years before knee replacement turns into my reality.

Thanks Snowolf!
Vicki
vicki, get a new knee in 3 weeks and then get it in shape for next winter...one of my ski buds had both knees done 2 years ago and he's doing great.
03-13-2012 05:05 PM
firstx1017 lol @ snowolf - okay, I read over your post three times and all I can think of is, "how will this old lady remember ALL THAT???"

If I can just conquer the leaning and big S-turns and try to get higher on my edge I will consider my snowboarding a success as that seems low impact yet enough to have fun. At this age and with my sore knee - after 4 hours I have to go back to the condo and ice it and it really is painful, the next day I can usually only handle 2 hours and I'm done - carving just isn't going to be on my "bucket list" - nor is "bombing" down a hill! lol

My goal when I started was to just get down any blue run without freaking out and it being "fun" and to be relaxed and not tense.

We have three more weekends before the lease is up on the condo and then I will have to continue this drama next year! :-)

I just want to make the most out of these next few years before knee replacement turns into my reality.

Thanks Snowolf!
Vicki
03-13-2012 10:26 AM
bseracka Snowolf- would riser plates help here with someone with rom issues? In my mind I'm seeing the extra leverage as a method to get around the rom issue and still be able to get a greater edge angle.
03-13-2012 09:50 AM
firstx1017 Snowolf - so icy conditions with my knee problems what I was doing was okay I take it for that particular day? I agree the fast dynamic turns wouldn't suit my knee problems - when watching the sample video cocolulu provided just seeing how far bent and with almost all weight on his knees while on toeside just made my knee hurt WATCHING that! lol When the conditions are a little better like the weekend I was practicing turns - that's when I will try to practice more - it seems like last weekend I was just in survival mode and wasn't sure how to ride the terrain.

I'd rather work on higher edge angles (if I can EVER get there! lol) while on softer snow - not ice. And also try not to pivot the board and ride thru the and complete my turns. Next time it is like it was Sunday I will work on trying to keep the board down the fall line with low edge angles.

They are expecting snow this weekend - probably only an inch or two, but better than nothing. Thanks again!
03-12-2012 11:57 PM
NoirX252 In advanced skidded/carved turns, you do not wait for your board to point downhill, you immediately engage the downhill edge.

Extreme case: low aggressive carve, you would actually be carving the start of the turn inverted.. upside down.... especially on a steep pitch

Working the top of the turn lets you control speed, skidded or carved.

Waiting for the board to point downhill before engaging edge will lead to speed buildup.

Just listen to snow wolf.

PS: didn't watch the video, but based on the explanations. (I've seen the video before but am not watching it now)

they are keeping it pointed downhill cause they want it to. Either cause they don't mind the speed build up.. or the conditions are slow, or they are digging into the pack hard enough to control speed via edge penetration depth.

There are 3 ways to control speed.

1. skidding
2. turn shape
3. how deep you dig the edge in... (if you are an advanced rider, you can dig into frozen granular very deeply on a carve and slow down)

Quote:
Originally Posted by firstx1017 View Post
CASI Level 2 Standards 2010 - YouTube,

Okay, this video helped and I see what others have said that I am not letting my board point downhill to engage on the edge. I think I was doing better two weeks ago, but the icy conditions this past weekend set me back. I see what I should be doing - on the above video the long lazy s-turns is what I am striving for. At my age all I want to do is easily go down the hills - not interested in speed. The hardest part is that in seeing the carving videos you really have to bend your knees on your toe edge and I think that is going to be my major issue. I already have a very bad right knee and bending causes a lot of pain - so I am beginning to think that if I can just get to s-turns on a higher edge will be where I want to end up.

I can tell that yesterdays turns were more z-like turns and I was just afraid that if I didn't do z-like turns I would NEVER stop slidding.

Thanks for the comments and I will try again this weekend! Wish me luck!
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