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Thread: Is there a way to turn Salt Water into a fuel to power a car.... Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
05-09-2008 03:07 PM
Thoris Wow scott that was a cool read, i am looking foward to more infomation about other fuel sources.
05-09-2008 01:04 PM
hvalley76 Yeah read up on him man. Tesla, the dude had it all figured out. He even started to build a free energy machine in NY. Then they discredited him, bankrupted him, and eventually had him whacked! ha

I think I heard about the methane thing too. Apparently there's tons of it dissoved in the oceans. They are actually worried about it releasing into the atmosphere because methane is like 20x more potent a greenhouse gas than CO2. There is a lake in Africa, I forget the name but it is saturated with dissolved co2. Once in the 80's something released all the co2 at once and it killed 1000s of people nearby. If we could get the methane out of the ocean maybe we would be averting a natural disaster as well!

Although methane is a hydrocarbon so burning it is going to produce co2 no matter what. It's basically natural gas, still alot cleaner than gasoline. Even squeaky clean hydrogen - if it's burned in a pure oxygen atmosphere produces nothing but water vapor, but for real world uses burning it in regular air creates oxides of nitrogen from the nitrogen in the air and other impurities.

Moral of the story, burning anything is bad in the long term. We gotta put our thinking caps on and get way out past that for the future.
05-09-2008 11:59 AM
Gustov
Quote:
Originally Posted by hvalley76 View Post
Careful! watch your back with that kinda talk...Nikola Tesla!

I figured you would pick up on that. I thought you posted once about being an engineering student. And I have read things that say the conservation of energy law seems to have problems when you look at the universe as a whole. So who knows?

I agree hybrids are just a temporary pacifier. Electric/fuel cell cars are probably the best bet long term right now. No batteries with their environmental problems, the energy is stored in nice, clean hydrogen. Just need to find a way to get that cleanly and efficiently.

That's where your free energy machine comes in
ah, good ol tesla yeah, i am an engineering student. i have done a couple projects/reports on alternative energy and i agree that fuel cells are the best option right now, until i reveal my invention

snowolf: that's pretty interesting stuff too. i wouldn't doubt if we saw some application from that in the coming years. it's been a few years since my studies of chemistry, but i would imagine burning methane gives off some kind of pollutant, i'm not sure though. if so though, widespread use of methane would probably be frowned upon.
05-09-2008 09:28 AM
hvalley76 Careful! watch your back with that kinda talk...Nikola Tesla!

I figured you would pick up on that. I thought you posted once about being an engineering student. And I have read things that say the conservation of energy law seems to have problems when you look at the universe as a whole. So who knows?

I agree hybrids are just a temporary pacifier. Electric/fuel cell cars are probably the best bet long term right now. No batteries with their environmental problems, the energy is stored in nice, clean hydrogen. Just need to find a way to get that cleanly and efficiently.

That's where your free energy machine comes in
05-08-2008 02:23 PM
Gustov yeah, i actually had thought of that hvalley. i thought it was interesting that salt water ignited though. none of this is gonna matter soon though, i'm gonna discover a way to farm entropy, i think i'm getting close
05-08-2008 12:23 PM
hvalley76 Interesting topic guys. Unfortunately things aren't quite as simple as that article makes it seem. I will guarantee that the energy used by his radio wave device is more than the energy available in the hydrogen produced. By the laws of thermodynamics it has to be, and they've held up pretty good for the last couple hundred years.

That would be called an "overunity" reaction. A type of perpetual motion. People sure have been looking, but no ones found one yet. Hydrogen is not an energy source, its an energy carrier. The energy used in splitting it from water is always more than what you get back. Even a unity reaction (1:1) is impossible. There is always a loss (entropy). This is true of any physical reaction.

What you need to look at is getting free, clean energy to obtain the hydrogen(solar, wind, etc.) Google solar electrolysis, it can be done pretty cheaply on a small scale. I think the Dutch actually have some solar powered hydrogen refueling stations for the public.

And if we're talking about automotive uses, since you've gone through all that trouble to get your hydrogen, you'll want to use it as efficiently as possible. The rotary is sure alot better than a piston engine but still internal combustion is not the way to go. Fuel cells use the reverse of the electrolysis reaction to produce electricity. There are electric motors that can approach 90% efficiency. You also get the benefit of dynamic braking where the kinetic energy of the moving car is reclaimed instead of just being wasted as heat (the current brake pad system).

I didn't put this here to shoot anyone down or anything. I think about this kind of stuff all the time too when I'm buying $4/gal gas! The best things happen when everyone is throwing out ideas.
05-08-2008 10:59 AM
Thoris
Quote:

HIROSHIMA, October 27, 2004 – Today, Japan's transport authorities gave Mazda permission to road test a hydrogen-fueled, rotary-engine version of its RX-8 sports car. This unique vehicle features a dual-fuel system that allows the driver to select hydrogen or gasoline with the flick of a switch. In what could prove a historic event, this will be the world's first "street legal" dual-fuel hydrogen rotary. Permission from Japan's Ministry of Land Infrastructure and Transport (MLIT) comes 12 months after Mazda unveiled a hydrogen/rotary concept version of the award-winning RX-8 at the 2003 Tokyo Motor Show. Mazda's near-term goal is to assess the practicality of this unique powertrain in everyday use. In the next-stage, expected within two years, test vehicles will be leased to governments and fleet users. Known as H2RE, the test vehicle will deliver good performance with no loss of interior space for four people--the high-pressure hydrogen fuel tank is mounted in the vehicle's trunk. The H2RE is powered by a modified version of Mazda's award-winning RENESIS rotary engine that features an electronically controlled hydrogen gas direct injection system on the rotor housing. RENESIS has proved ideal for burning hydrogen as the intake area of a rotary engine stays relatively cool in temperature, reducing the tendency for engine backfire--a significant challenge in conventional engines. The hydrogen/rotary combination likewise offers superior environmental performance--zero emission of CO2 and near zero NOx emissions. And because existing parts and production facilities are used, the innovative engine can be built reliably at a relatively low cost. More importantly, the hydrogen/gasoline dual fuel system will enable the H2RE to travel beyond the range of the few hydrogen filling stations now available. Mazda will continue to develop this technology for practical use and work to support the development of a hydrogen-fueled society. Major specifications of "Mazda RX-8 Hydrogen Rotary Engine Vehicle"

* Base model: Mazda RX-8
* Base engine: 13B Dual Fuel Hydrogen Rotary Engine
* Length: 4.435m
* Width: 1.770m
* Height: 1.325m
* Wheelbase: 2.7m
* Weight: 1,440kg
* Passenger capacity: Four adults
* Fuel: Hydrogen or Gasoline
* Fuel tank Hydrogen: 74L / 35MPa high-pressure tank
* Gasoline: 61L

History of Mazda's hydrogen vehicle development

* 1991 Developed first hydrogen rotary engine vehicle, HR-X
* 1992 Test drive of golf cart equipped with fuel cell
* 1993 Developed second hydrogen rotary engine vehicle, HR-X2, Developed MX-5 test vehicle equipped with hydrogen rotary engine
* 1995 Conducted Japan's first public road test with Capella Cargo equipped with hydrogen rotary engine
* 1997 Developed Demio FC-EV
* 2001 Developed Premacy FC-EV, conducted first public road test in Japan. (Methanol Reforming)
* 2003 Announced RX-8 hydrogen rotary engine vehicle development
* 2004 Received MLIT approval for public road testing of the H2RE dual-fuel RX-8

Here is the link of Mazda's Rx-8 Hydro running with duel fuel system since 2004. They have been working on hydrogen since 1991.



Its in Japanese but it shows you how the hydro rotary works..'
YouTube - Mechanism of Rotary Engine
05-08-2008 10:51 AM
Thoris the other thing is what about the fricken batterys that go in a few years. Of how much waste that will create, its almost as mad as using fossil fuels
05-08-2008 08:59 AM
Gustov
Quote:
Originally Posted by Thoris View Post
I really think hybrids are a fashion statement to say I care.
i completely agree with that. if all the stuff we hear about global warming is accurate, there's no way enough people would have them in time to make any difference. automobiles don't even account for all that much pollution as most people think either, compared to plants and buildings and such. they're just a way for stop and go/city drivers to save some gas money immediately.
05-08-2008 12:57 AM
Thoris but I do think it's going toward the right direction, I mean come on if this guy can come up with this many other scientist can do it. I need to get to a laptop and I can show you guys a video on running a rotary rx-8 hydrogen car in japan. I honestly think hydro is the next fuel for the world. I really think hybrids are a fashion statement to say I care. Which in reality is as much of destrution of the enviormemt as using fossil fuels.

I will edit when I get to a laptop, I wrote this on my itouch
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