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Thread: What if I Don't Wax... Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-03-2012 11:53 PM
ETM I wax and I notice it. When it needs another wax I can feel it, and as people have said the first place you will notice it is on a flat runout, if you were on 30+ degree slopes all day you would rarely need wax as gravity is helping you get down fast.
I can even be riding and think to myself that heel side is getting a bit sticky, look at the base and sure enough the heel side looks white, go wax the board and its problem solved.
To listen to some in this thread what I am experiencing is some kind of delusional mind trick engineered by the wax makers. Im not that dumb, I wax when I can tell it needs it and for me that happens to be around very 5 days or so.
10-03-2012 11:32 PM
herzogone
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRKRIDER View Post
I had the feeling for a while that waxing was just a piece of info-marketing that worked really well, and noticed a difference in speed only on flats, on a slushy day.
That said, I love to wax my boards the night before a powder day...it's just a ritual of love.

Zardoz no- wax works really well too on slush...but I'm worried that it could bee too toxic. Any info on that?
Well, I'm not a chemist, and my understanding of the distinctions of different PFCs (perfluorinated chemicals) is very limited, but I think Zardoz NOTwax sounds reasonably safe since they actually make that claim. They state that it is perfluoropolyalkylether (PFPAE), which does not appear to be one of the specific dangerous PFCs called out in the Scientific American article. Actually, the stuff sounds interesting, I wasn't aware of it, thanks for sharing. I'll have to do more reading.
10-03-2012 04:22 PM
KIRKRIDER 5 years season pass and counting...


Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerkat89 View Post
duh lol haven't heard of it though






10-03-2012 03:42 PM
jdang307 A favorite for the off the beaten path boarders. A little far from the lake.
10-03-2012 03:26 PM
SnowOwl
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdang307 View Post
He rides Kirkwood (hence the name). Tahoe.
duh lol haven't heard of it though
10-03-2012 03:19 PM
jdang307
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerkat89 View Post
Where do you ride at locally here in CA?
He rides Kirkwood (hence the name). Tahoe.
10-03-2012 02:24 PM
SnowOwl
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRKRIDER View Post
Thanks..I did that too...but it's not that wax is expensive...it's just that is basically useless...again unless it's a slushy day...or you're racing.

that said there's no way I'm going to give up waxing...as I said I enjoy it...as I enjoy doing my edges, setting up whatever I'm riding..and so on.
Where do you ride at locally here in CA?
10-03-2012 02:14 PM
KIRKRIDER
Quote:
Originally Posted by tylerkat89 View Post
On your quote, the part about saving money, you can re use scrapped off wax!


Thanks..I did that too...but it's not that wax is expensive...it's just that is basically useless...again unless it's a slushy day...or you're racing.

that said there's no way I'm going to give up waxing...as I said I enjoy it...as I enjoy doing my edges, setting up whatever I'm riding..and so on.
10-03-2012 02:06 PM
SnowOwl
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRKRIDER View Post
I had the feeling for a while that waxing was just a piece of info-marketing that worked really well, and noticed a difference in speed only on flats, on a slushy day.
That said, I love to wax my boards the night before a powder day...it's just a ritual of love.

Zardoz no- wax works really well too on slush...but I'm worried that it could bee too toxic. Any info on that?
On your quote, the part about saving money, you can re use scrapped off wax!
10-03-2012 01:49 PM
KIRKRIDER I had the feeling for a while that waxing was just a piece of info-marketing that worked really well, and noticed a difference in speed only on flats, on a slushy day.
That said, I love to wax my boards the night before a powder day...it's just a ritual of love.

Zardoz no- wax works really well too on slush...but I'm worried that it could bee too toxic. Any info on that?


Quote:
Originally Posted by herzogone View Post
During the winter that wasn’t I did quite a bit of reading on this subject, and there seems to be some confusion persistent here.

First let me state that sintered P-Tex, or UHMWPE, is a pretty awesome material for the purposes of snowboard bases. It has very low friction, doesn’t really absorb moisture, resists impacts, and is incredibly abrasion resistant (10 times more than carbon steel).

The idea that sintered bases are porous and absorb wax like a sponge is a myth (or at best a “poor” analogy). UHMWPE consists of crystalline lamellae and amorphous (disordered) regions. The crystalline lamellae are the ordered regions that give the P-Tex the whitish, dry appearance (sometimes incorrectly called “oxidation”). Wax simply binds to the surface, filling the amorphous regions and binding the lamellae. Wax does generally measurably increase the hydrophobicity of the surface, which improves glide on snow (as everyone with a freshly waxed board has no doubt experienced to some degree).

Interestingly, Leonid Kuzmin’s PhD thesis “Interfacial Kinetic Ski Friction” demonstrates that it is even possible to produce a lower friction surface on UHMWPE without any wax, through structuring alone. I know he has been widely criticized on the internet, but based on the critiques given I think few of those people actually bothered to read his thesis. I read it in its entirety. He simply demonstrates that it is possible to get optimal glide without wax, if the surface is correctly structured. This does not mean simply not waxing is faster. In fact, he clearly shows that an unwaxed stone ground base is slower than a waxed base (as everyone has experienced). His findings are really about showing that wax is not necessary if a different structuring technique is used in place of stone grinding. Unfortunately for us, I think his method only readily applies to edgeless cross-country skis, since it involves scraping the base with a steel scraper (also, personally, I have no desire to sacrifice base material in the name of performance).

For my own views on the original post, I’m with BA on waxing. That is, I don’t do it anymore. I didn’t wax all last season and noticed no detrimental effects, aside from a little less glide in the flats. I’ve haven't experienced any increase in unpredictability on snow or jibs. The only time I might even still consider waxing is during spring mashed-potato snow, but last season here on the ice coast we pretty much missed that altogether. I used to wax every few days on the snow, but I found it didn’t last long. My advice is, unless you’re a die-hard racer, give a try to going waxless. It won’t do any damage and you may save yourself a bit of money, hassle, and even reduce potential health/environmental risks from PFCs. On the latter point, if you do prefer to wax, consider a PFC-free wax if possible.
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