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Thread: Advice on teaching my 2.5 y.o. Daughter to ride (peep the videos!!) Reply to Thread
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  Topic Review (Newest First)
10-23-2012 01:26 PM
MGD81
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcdeo View Post
The sooner she learns to shred the sooner we can all take family vacations together and REALLY shred the winter, lol. (I board, the wife skiis)



Baby snowboarder Emile 22 month - YouTube


Snowboard Girl 1 year old - YouTube
If this is your goal then start her on skis, no question.

If you watch most of those videos with kids under 4, none of them actually turn onto their toeside edge, basically they sideslip the whole mountain. Im not knocking it - as long as the kids having fun, but thats not snowboarding, its sliding the mountain on your heels. Until they turn, they are never more than a level 1, steeper terrain - don't even think about it.

Put your kid on skis, there is actually a chance you get to ski with your kids for some of the holiday.

Managing parents expectations is normally the most difficult part of working at a ski school.
10-19-2012 04:49 PM
wrathfuldeity
Quote:
Originally Posted by marcdeo View Post
So guys, did you purchase the equiptment for your little tykes, or simply rent them?
That's what ski swaps are for...I'm heading with the kids to a big one in a couple of minutes...fortunately they are old enough to find and buy their own shit and there is a strategy...who ever gets done first....go stand in the check out line
10-19-2012 01:37 PM
MikeIn248 For me, purchase, no question. Like I mentioned upthread, I have two sons, 2.5 years apart. My general strategy will be to buy new stuff out of season and pass it down. (I also have a nephew 1-1/2 younger than my youngest -- don't know if he'll do snow sports, but bikes and other stuff will get passed down to him for sure.)

Skis. I bought new "last year's model" skis and bindings in the summer on discount ($200, I think. MSRP would've been $300+). Then in season I bought adjustable Roces boots ($100), which we got two seasons out of. Real rough math, but kid 1 got almost 30 days on the gear, making that roughly $10 a day. Say kid 2 uses the stuff for two years, also around 30 days, that makes $5 a day. (Right now I don't have issues with passing boots down from kid to kid.)

Snowboard. Similarly, last spring/summer when discounts started, I bought a new "last year's model" board for about $120. (Ride Lowrider, 90cm. Looks like 2013 model has MSRP of $180 this year.) I bought new Flow Micron bindings (previous year's model, XS) off of eBay for about $50. Boots I'll buy in season to make sure they fit, probably full price. Once I see how the kid does and how the boots work out, I'll watch next spring's sales and buy the next 2 sizes up of the same model of boot if discounts are good. Same plan for passing snowboard gear down to second kid as with skis.

I'm sure this beats rentals anywhere. At some point too I did some numbers on those "new gear each season" programs and didn't think they made sense for me at all, especially since I plan to pass down. I can see kids' needing new boots each season, but I'm hoping a given size board will last 2 seasons per kid. So given their age spread, I'm thinking they'll get about 4 years out of a board.

Plus there's never having to deal with a rentals area.
10-19-2012 12:44 PM
marcdeo So guys, did you purchase the equiptment for your little tykes, or simply rent them?
10-15-2012 04:15 AM
wrathfuldeity Back on topic. Start them as young or old as you want, let them try both. Expose them to other kids that are skiing/riding. Kids learn by seeing, doing and playing. Playing and enjoying the snow is the key...in HI saw like 2 year olds surfing...on the board with mom/dad or standing up, dad pushing the board and kid falling and swimming. Just let them have fun and learn joys of playing in the snow.
10-15-2012 03:43 AM
wrathfuldeity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saevus View Post
You seem to have behavior and personality confused. Behavior is a response due to an internal/external stimulus while personality is the perception of oneself and everything else. Personality requires depth, built from experiences acquired during life. Behavior, knowledge, cultural, language, etc. affect personality at all times so to say a infant of only a couple months has a personality is ludicrous. At age 3, a child is beginning to develop personality. This is accomplished due to trying different behaviors and attempting interaction/communication with peers and older individuals. Although behavior can be an early indication of personality, one can easily manipulate an outgoing child (between ages 1 to 4) to a complete introvert by reinforcing certain behaviors. Instead of basing your argument off of an insignificant sample (3 children), do some research on cognitive and psychosocial development.
Sir you are correct but you have no kids...thus what is your experience beyond academia, experimental psych, and empiricism....have you ever spent time with infants/toddlers or even a dog or cat. By your line of thought the family pet has no personality and is just the sum of conditioning. And what about mothers that will tell you that infants do have personality. And yes I did purposefully manipulate my two younger kids cognitive perception of pain (not sensory perception) via perceptual set/perceptual expectancy. Btw you are using introvert in the popular sense and not the classical/clinical conceptualization. In all respect please go back in your Skinner air crib....or better yet....get out of the frickin thing...don't let school get in the way of your education.
10-15-2012 02:40 AM
Saevus
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrathfuldeity View Post
Do you have kids? All three of mine had personalities within months, oldest one is a weenie, second is a dood and third is a frickin bulldog and those core personality has been true to this day. As for pain its often easily forgotten (you can remember the experience but not the actual pain) and is a learned response or its the interpertation of the pain...like "pain is weakness leaving the body"...early on with all I was...ehh its nothing...its far from your heart...ehh yer not going to die today. Oldest....a weenie that wines and rides but is not a rider, second ...come on mfker I can take it and third...it may hurt for a minute but I ain't letting go...and she is tougher than her two older brothers.
You seem to have behavior and personality confused. Behavior is a response due to an internal/external stimulus while personality is the perception of oneself and everything else. Personality requires depth, built from experiences acquired during life. Behavior, knowledge, cultural, language, etc. affect personality at all times so to say a infant of only a couple months has a personality is ludicrous. At age 3, a child is beginning to develop personality. This is accomplished due to trying different behaviors and attempting interaction/communication with peers and older individuals. Although behavior can be an early indication of personality, one can easily manipulate an outgoing child (between ages 1 to 4) to a complete introvert by reinforcing certain behaviors. Instead of basing your argument off of an insignificant sample (3 children), do some research on cognitive and psychosocial development.

Mike brings up an interesting point. I would assume (<-keyword) skiing would be less physically demanding compared to snowboarding at her age, but I bet what is "naturally" comfortable also plays a part. At this time, I'd have her try both and see which one she picks up the quickest and prefers. Once she hits age 5+ she should have enough muscle development to seriously take on either. I'm still jealous every time I see kids tearing it up on snowboards; I could have added 10 more years to what I have now
10-14-2012 10:28 PM
MikeIn248 I’m interested in these kinds of conversations because I have two young sons. Younger turns 4 in January. Older will be 6.5 then.

Older will switch to snowboard this season. He spent the last two winters (at 4.5 and 5.5) on skis (and the prior winter on toy cross-country skis in the back yard). I tortured myself about when to start him and whether to start on skis or snowboard. (I don’t really downhill ski -- I’ve only been about a dozen times. I do cross-country, though.) There were many factors in my decision-making. I’ll mention a few.

My main goal was to set him up for success and fun. Along those lines I bought into the physical-development arguments that say skiing first. (But I can see the point in the approach that says let the kid pick -- they’ll have the success/fun because they’re doing what they want.) (But I personally just hate to see people flail unsuccessfully at something and that was some of my fear with starting my kid on the board.)

I can appreciate what the OP is saying about stability. But the arguments against say that the *average* younger children don’t have the ankle strength and control to make the board do much of anything. (Plus their bodies are a lot less familiar with the toe-heel axis kind of balancing on the board compared to side-to-side balancing.) I’m just repeating the arguments here -- my sum experience is with exactly one kid, who hasn’t even switched to boarding yet.

I though older kid made great progress on skis. He spent 15+ days on the snow first season and 10+ the second. About half the days the first season were in full-day ski school. Second season he just had a couple hours of privates. (A teacher at the end of first season said kid was developing great and all he needed was miles under his belt.)

The decision to put him in ski school so much the first season came largely from a recognition of my own limitations and difficulties teaching close family members anything. (Plus the fact that I don’t actually ski.) Anyhow, it let me play more of the role of “let’s go explore” rather than “technique coach,” but I did insist that he ski his best, including a good bit of age-appropriate parallel skiing the second season. (I absolutely can’t stand watching small kids power wedging their way down a (steeper) hill on skis, whether they’re happy and in control or in terror and not.)

Also, when I was scouting all this out a couple of years ago, it seemed there weren’t many resorts that were offering a full-day riding program for kids as young as 4 (some only offered it to that age on weekends). Most of them wanted to put off riding until 6 or 7. My impression is that this seems to be changing, even in the past 2 years.

Regarding shitting their pants -- most schools make it real clear that even though they’ll take kids as young as 3 for all-day group lessons, the kids all need to be potty trained. This wasn’t an issue for my older son, but it will be an issue with younger.

I could write a lot more about this, but it’s already turning into a book.

I’m excited about getting older son on the board this year. I’m thinking of doing a private lesson for him the first day or two, then a handful of full-day group lessons -- but not go overboard like his first year on skis.

Younger son looks like he’ll be more of a challenge. Frankly, I don’t think he’s ready for it this season, but my wife (who skis) wants to get back out on the slopes this year.
10-14-2012 03:43 PM
wrathfuldeity
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saevus View Post
To say kids even have a personality at that age is kind of a stretch, don't you think? Granted, not every kid is going to have the same motivation when it comes to a task, but at the age if you can't help them interpret different forms of pain, they will just associate the task as harmful to themselves. I'm sure you don't remember the first time you touched the stove (or something really hot), and probably even forgot about it after it healed, but from then on you knew not to repeat that behavior. At that age, she will only be able to comprehend basic stimuli (happiness, pain, fear, sadness) to build experience in this world until she develops abstract thought/introspection.
Do you have kids? All three of mine had personalities within months, oldest one is a weenie, second is a dood and third is a frickin bulldog and those core personality has been true to this day. As for pain its often easily forgotten (you can remember the experience but not the actual pain) and is a learned response or its the interpertation of the pain...like "pain is weakness leaving the body"...early on with all I was...ehh its nothing...its far from your heart...ehh yer not going to die today. Oldest....a weenie that wines and rides but is not a rider, second ...come on mfker I can take it and third...it may hurt for a minute but I ain't letting go...and she is tougher than her two older brothers.
10-14-2012 02:02 PM
Saevus
Quote:
Originally Posted by snowklinger View Post
I was expecting something interesting from that Pizza Kid video. Its some little kid crashing on skis and then crying like a little kid.

You don't need to condition kids for pain, they don't even feel it after like 30 seconds. I need conditioning for pain, ffs!

Kid's personalities are gonna dictate their on-snow attitude at very young ages. They are either gonna attack it, or not.
To say kids even have a personality at that age is kind of a stretch, don't you think? Granted, not every kid is going to have the same motivation when it comes to a task, but at the age if you can't help them interpret different forms of pain, they will just associate the task as harmful to themselves. I'm sure you don't remember the first time you touched the stove (or something really hot), and probably even forgot about it after it healed, but from then on you knew not to repeat that behavior. At that age, she will only be able to comprehend basic stimuli (happiness, pain, fear, sadness) to build experience in this world until she develops abstract thought/introspection.
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