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  Topic Review (Newest First)
12-27-2012 04:00 PM
jjz I went to dagmar, left this morning as its only 45 minutes away so my mom didnt mind driving me and my brother.

Had a good time, conditions were nice, no pow, it seems as if whereas in toronto we got 15 cm, they only got 5 (their website claimed 10), but it was good conditions anyway.

Didnt fall on my shoulder or arm once, had one semi hard fall on my tailbone off an awkward box but thats just the usual soreness.

Overall i was very happy with my shoulders response, as it only bothered me once but not too bad.
12-27-2012 12:11 PM
EatRideSleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjz View Post
just to clarify the doctor i went to wasnt a regular MD, he was a some sort of specialist. I was able to get this without an appt cus hes a friend of my dads friend (IM 15).

Thanks for all the recommendation, i remember him saying something before a test saying he was testing for impingment and he really seemed pretty knowleagable, did a bunch of tests.

7 cm has fallen already but the snow stopped, If it gets groomed over (likely) ill wait till the weeekend to go up.

Thanks for all the help guys, i apreciate it.
Ah good to know you are being smart about it at your age.
I was the type to "walk things off" and push through it as a teenager and still have shit that haunts me from then. I don't advise it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jml22 View Post
Orthopedic surgeon missed my AC sprain and he was the shoulder guy to goto in the country.
He cut me up without trying any type of conservative care and completely missed my AC sprain. Pretty f'ing easy thing to mix.
Trust no one, get second opinions when possible, but do not tell them what the previous person says til after. Previous opinions will always skew the new person's opinion, best not to chance it.

Ice is always good for acute things, Out with the bad in with the good.

Yeah but when i mean physiological changes i mean an increase/decrease in blood flow and how the cells are working. Most transdermals are for pain.
That sucks; sorry to hear it. Whenever I hear some specialist is the "go-to" person, red flags go up.

And you'll most often never get conservative or alternative methods from a surgeon. They are trained to cut. That's what they know, that's what they do.

Very good advice to get second (or more) opinions.

Not to belabor the point about transdermals, but just to clarify: I was referencing them in general: patches for nicotine, birth control, hormones, pain management, etc, etc. The skin absorbs such things, they enter the bloodstream and have affects on physiological function that way. It's why bathing in bleach is a bad idea. It goes beyond the skin.

Topicals like even crappy icy hot do actually affect an increase in circulation, which is why the warming/cooling sensation happens - dilation of the skin's capillaries in response to a substance such as menthol or camphor oil.
12-27-2012 12:33 AM
jml22 Orthopedic surgeon missed my AC sprain and he was the shoulder guy to goto in the country.
He cut me up without trying any type of conservative care and completely missed my AC sprain. Pretty f'ing easy thing to mix.
Trust no one, get second opinions when possible, but do not tell them what the previous person says til after. Previous opinions will always skew the new person's opinion, best not to chance it.

Ice is always good for acute things, Out with the bad in with the good.

Yeah but when i mean physiological changes i mean an increase/decrease in blood flow and how the cells are working. Most transdermals are for pain.
12-27-2012 12:04 AM
Efilnikufesin
Quote:
Originally Posted by jjz View Post
just to clarify the doctor i went to wasnt a regular MD, he was a some sort of specialist. I was able to get this without an appt cus hes a friend of my dads friend (IM 15).

Thanks for all the recommendation, i remember him saying something before a test saying he was testing for impingment and he really seemed pretty knowleagable, did a bunch of tests.

7 cm has fallen already but the snow stopped, If it gets groomed over (likely) ill wait till the weeekend to go up.

Thanks for all the help guys, i apreciate it.
Good luck if you are going to go for it, keep the ice up. Check out some rotator exercises while your at it, can do a great deal to minimize the pain (though it may hurt more initially it will go away) but will also help to prevent something like this from happening again. Inner rotation and outer rotations are a great way to start.

Good luck man, and if the pain remains, go see the doc again, or another doc. Some are morons though they made it through med school .

Edit: Did he recommend any PT?
12-26-2012 11:53 PM
jjz just to clarify the doctor i went to wasnt a regular MD, he was a some sort of specialist. I was able to get this without an appt cus hes a friend of my dads friend (IM 15).

Thanks for all the recommendation, i remember him saying something before a test saying he was testing for impingment and he really seemed pretty knowleagable, did a bunch of tests.

7 cm has fallen already but the snow stopped, If it gets groomed over (likely) ill wait till the weeekend to go up.

Thanks for all the help guys, i apreciate it.
12-26-2012 11:43 PM
EatRideSleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efilnikufesin View Post
Lol, was looking at two threads, mixie was in the other. But to add there is always swelling in that type of injury after two weeks, especially if it hasn't been attended to. Used to be a minor league pitcher and powerlifter as well and have seen and had more shoulder injuries than probably this whole site combined, well maybe.

Topical packs and rubs only provide temporary relief without actually doing anything to help the injury, real ice (with no buffer, just throw a bag of ice on) and anti inflammatories work much better.
Haha I thought maybe it was because all chick riders appear alike on the internet.

Good point about the presence of inflammation if not attended to in two weeks time. It also depends upon the degree. This is a minor tear according to the info. I was under the impression the OP did something, like rest it, considering he went to the doctor day-of. So, heat should be okay at this point. You don't want inflammation stagnating; heat and ice can help get it flushed. Heat at the initial stages can do damage so ice then is best.

With your background of pitching and powerlifting, I'm sure you've seen a lot of issues in the shoulders!

Yeah, I agree that most well known topicals like icy hot (which is crap imo) don't do anything. But the topicals I've tried and mentioned do work for me and others. But they're only one facet of the approach.

I love ice. Straight ice, like you said no buffer. I personally stay away from traditional NSAIDs and pain blockers, however. Pain is the body's version of a warning signal not to overuse/over injure.
12-26-2012 11:25 PM
Efilnikufesin
Quote:
Originally Posted by EatRideSleep View Post
BioFreeze and Arnica actually treat the tissue and promote healing. NSAIDs do have anti-inflammatory action, but the risk there is that some can block the pain receptors. That's when additional injury can happen.

Correct; you don't want to apply heat with active inflammation. But the OP said it's been over 2 weeks so heat would be okay at this point. He didn't mention anything about swelling.

Ice stimulates circulation while not increasing inflammation. Which is why ice is preferred as the initial application to an injury.

Edit: Oh haha saw your edit re: mixie
Lol, was looking at two threads, mixie was in the other. But to add there is always swelling in that type of injury after two weeks, especially if it hasn't been attended to. Used to be a minor league pitcher and powerlifter as well and have seen and had more shoulder injuries than probably this whole site combined, well maybe.

Topical packs and rubs only provide temporary relief without actually doing anything to help the injury, real ice (with no buffer, just throw a bag of ice on) and anti inflammatories work much better.
12-26-2012 11:21 PM
EatRideSleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by jml22 View Post
Ok first of all cuff tear is a very very very very general term as there are 4 cuff muscles.
The supraspinatus is not deep to the deltoid... I guess saying the tendon is deep might be better but its' not realyl something anyone ever says cause of where it goes.

Second, topicals only reduce pain, they do not change physiology by any means, and when they do it's very superficial. Also, the body needs inflammation for the area to heal. Anti-inflammatories longer term will impede this process from happening, they should only used for pain and acute situations.

Was there any pain in any of the muscle tests and did he do a bunch of them?
When you lift your arm your arm out to the side all the way up does it hurt?
Does it hurt lifting it forward? and where
Try this one, lift your arm up point your thumb down and then move it across your body, does that hurt and where?

My main point is that, pain in the shoulder can be caused by the neck, impingement, labrum, cuff, muscle strains ligament strains, scapula... ETC.....
Most docs are very terrible at differentiating one from the other, because they've never learned or haven't kept up to date on it. Saying cuff tear is a real half ass answer.
Sorry, deep to the deltoid in action, meaning supportive. It's palpable so not deep in terms of depth.

I have to disagree about topicals not having physiological benefit. What about transdermals? The skin absorbs.

I agree with you about shoulder pain being secondary to other things like the cervical issues, impingements, issues of the scapula, etc.

And you are SO right about most MDs not being good at musculoskeletal injuries and the reasons for that.
12-26-2012 11:08 PM
EatRideSleep
Quote:
Originally Posted by Efilnikufesin View Post
Biofreeze and things like that are crap(sorry mixie, not trying to undermine!) Never put heat on it till the swelling is down. Heat will increase blood flow, but also increase swelling. Only heat to promote healing when swelling and pain has subsided.
BioFreeze and Arnica actually treat the tissue and promote healing. NSAIDs do have anti-inflammatory action, but the risk there is that some can block the pain receptors. That's when additional injury can happen.

Correct; you don't want to apply heat with active inflammation. But the OP said it's been over 2 weeks so heat would be okay at this point. He didn't mention anything about swelling.

Ice stimulates circulation while not increasing inflammation. Which is why ice is preferred as the initial application to an injury.

Edit: Oh haha saw your edit re: mixie
12-26-2012 11:08 PM
jml22 Ok first of all cuff tear is a very very very very general term as there are 4 cuff muscles.
The supraspinatus is not deep to the deltoid... I guess saying the tendon is deep might be better but its' not realyl something anyone ever says cause of where it goes.

Second, topicals only reduce pain, they do not change physiology by any means, and when they do it's very superficial. Also, the body needs inflammation for the area to heal. Anti-inflammatories longer term will impede this process from happening, they should only used for pain and acute situations.

Was there any pain in any of the muscle tests and did he do a bunch of them?
When you lift your arm your arm out to the side all the way up does it hurt?
Does it hurt lifting it forward? and where
Try this one, lift your arm up point your thumb down and then move it across your body, does that hurt and where?

My main point is that, pain in the shoulder can be caused by the neck, impingement, labrum, cuff, muscle strains ligament strains, scapula... ETC.....
Most docs are very terrible at differentiating one from the other, because they've never learned or haven't kept up to date on it. Saying cuff tear is a real half ass answer.
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