|Topic Review (Newest First)|
|02-18-2013 06:05 PM|
I'm a 2nd season snowboarder just starting out with parks and stumbled upon this post while searching "180 snowboard". Aren't there some heated discussions above =). I'll share some of my experiences below. Forgive me if my English is not perfect.
I'm trying to nail down my 180s, I can already do it in all four direction across the hill on flat, and I started by doing it "counter-rotating". In my opinion this idea exists, the same way a cat can land on its fours when released up-side-down. If you watch a cat in slow-mo, its torso rotates clockwise and arms counter-clockwise to allow paws touch floor first. Then as soon as it has traction, torso follows up and your cat is now in its normal position.
However, you can only twist so much before you become a wringing towel, therefore it's not an ideal way to do spins off jumps. Your cat can land on its feet when up-side-down, but it's the maximum it can do (180s). It certainly can't do a 540 and land on its paws this way; too much rotation will probably crush its spine.
Now talking about my first-hand experience, I started in the counter-rotating way because it seems more comfortable to a newbie. For front 180s, instead of pre-winding and looking away from the direction of travel, you wind the other way, looking AT the direction of travel, and then jump in the air, twist your body and land it. Unfortunately the correct way to do stuff is often counter intuitive. For reasons mentioned above, you can do it for 180s, but it's not a good way to progress into 3s and 5s and is not as stable as the other way.
In simple words: Counter-rotating exists, like the back and forth rotating you would do standing on a office chair. However you can't use it for spins more than 180 just as you can't do it on an office chair; therefore it's not ideal for spinning off a jump.
As for me, I just switched from counter-rotating to rotating; it feels so much better and more stable for the landing. However, I DO still keep my counter-rotations for on and off boxes and rails.
|01-26-2013 03:59 PM|
I'm still calling bs on your so called 'progression'.
No experienced park rider would misunderstand why floaty, slow 180s feel better than fast 180s. Not a single one.
The fact is if you were experienced in park we wouldn't be having this conversation because you'd know how learning correct use of spin rotation easily lends itself into taking your 180s into 360 and beyond.
|01-26-2013 03:11 PM|
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
|01-26-2013 01:57 AM|
Originally Posted by rasmasyean View Post
He's trying to 180 off a box, not 180 onto and off a box. In his case he wants to be using rotation not counter-rotation.
We're saying it's an advanced technique because when people like you learn counter-rotation as their method for doing 180s, it messes up their riding and they start using the wrong rotations for the wrong uses, which is exactly what you're doing now.
Just because you decided to learn it the wrong way and ruin your technique because you gave up learning them the proper way (that scales easily into 360s and beyond) doesn't mean you should be advising people to follow in your footsteps.
FYI, you say progression isn't set in stone, but you haven't progressed. Show me a video of your riding and how your amazing learning method of counter-rotated 180s (without learning proper rotation first) has easily let you progress into your super smooth 360s and 540s and I'll believe you.
When every single park rider with experience explains that spins should be learnt a certain way to make progression easy and you come in with a lack of experience in park and say "Nope, I'm right because I do it this way" it makes you look ridiculous.
|01-26-2013 01:49 AM|
Originally Posted by Jed View Post
"I've been trying to do spins lately, and things havent been going well. I know how to do them, I just can't. I seem to freeze up while in the air, or can't finish the turn. This happens a lot when I try to 180 off boxes and such (even though I can easily just air to fakie on the snow), but I can more or less control the 180. Any tips? "
The "off jump" part is something we just got sidetracted from. But this is what he's asking and I answered him with the 2 ways of doing it. He already can do a 180 so he's not very far from an "advanced 180" whatever that means.
And btw, I myself learned to couter-rotate 180's on flat ground WAY before rotating. Why may you ask would I use this "ADVANCED 180" first? Because it was FAST and didn't require a lot of air time AND, like you empasize, I can STOP my 180 without reverting. *I* felt the regular rotated 180 required a bit of timing and even energy to pop when learning and it was really hard for me to get it all the way arround...and when I did, I tend to "spin out" a lot and maybe catch an edge while I was at it. ESPECIALLY when I was going fast or whatever, I never used a rotated 180. At least not in the beginning until I got better with the timing.
"Progression" is not always set in stone. It depends a lot on the person.
|01-25-2013 09:39 AM|
Originally Posted by hktrdr View Post
|01-25-2013 12:59 AM|
Originally Posted by rasmasyean View Post
I watched the whole video to be sure, but as I suspected, the SA video even says that counter-rotated 180s are used mainly on rails and boxes to stop rotation at 180 and 180 back out.
Also it says counter-rotated 180s are an ADVANCED technique. You should not be doing that right away, particularly off jumps.
If you knew park progression you'd know that you almost always want to use rotation, not counter-rotation to spin a 180 off a jump.
It's very rare, specific circumstances when you'll be using counter-rotation for a 180 on a jump because every single park rider will tell you it's way more stable to use rotation, not counter-rotation for 180s off jumps.
This is exactly why you shouldn't be giving park advice. You don't have the skillset and progression in the park to draw your advice from. You're mainly guessing without knowing how progression works.
On this note, getting tired of people pointing me to SA videos to prove a point that's wrong. Trust me, I know Nev personally and he isn't teaching people to counter-rotate their 180s off jumps when they're starting out in the park.
|01-25-2013 12:47 AM|
I just notices that the 3rd post in this thread has a COUNTER-ROTATION 180 video that describes it. Unfortunately, no one including me noticed it was there.
And I thought the OP asked about BEGINNER 180's. Why are you bringing 100 foot 180's and 360's up? Something wrong with doing a 180 on flat ground or 1 inch box first???
|01-24-2013 08:26 PM|
Originally Posted by Donutz View Post
I think where the confusion comes from is that for the second half of the maneuver your lower body is rotating faster than your upper body, so relative to the lower body if feels like your upper body is rotating CW. But in absolute terms (or relative to the mountain) all parts (upper body, lower body & board) only rotate CCW.
Think about it: By definition between the starting and completing the 180 your upper body, lower body & board all must rotate 180 degrees. The anticipatory rotation accounts for ~90/180 for the upper body, so during the second phase the upper body only has to rotate another 90 degrees, while the lower body and boards still have to complete the entire 180 degree spin.
If any part were to counter-rotate (i.e., spin CW) throughout the maneuver would have the same amount of additional CCW rotation - the total rotation still has to add up to 180 degrees.
An example of the latter would be pre-wind for jumps with more than 1 complete rotation - say, for a 540 CCW you might twist your upper body 90 degrees CW before the jump, so that it subsequently rotates through 630 degrees CCW (it still has to add up to the same total - 540 degrees in this case). However, this is completely unnecessary and pointless for 180s.
|01-24-2013 10:51 AM|
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Rasm can post a video or stfu :-)
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