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  Topic Review (Newest First)
02-04-2013 01:10 PM
Extremo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigmountainVMD View Post
I'm not sure, as I doubt the 2 contact points are the ONLY points coming in contact with the snow. Like I said it was a hypothesis, and would need testing.

I don't alter my technique when tuning those edges, as a normal file and guide and still sharpen along the contours of the edge. MTX needs a smaller file guide or you just have to do it freehand.
No you def raise a good point. I'd like to see how the pressure is destributed to the edge from the body. I would assume there is very little pressure utilized between the bindings. I noticed my CRC profile holds a serious edge. Maybe that's because the reverse camber between the feet actually increase edge hold by forcing the flex of the board into the snow.
02-04-2013 12:25 PM
wernersl What about Nideckers ultimate grip, or whatever they call it. Looks intriguing and wonder how it performs compared to mag or grip tech...
02-04-2013 12:23 PM
BigmountainVMD
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extremo View Post
So if you applied this same logic to two contact points like the Arbor provides you'd have more grip than you would with 7. Interesting.

Anyone have any experience hand tuning the Grip Tech/Frostbite style edges?
I'm not sure, as I doubt the 2 contact points are the ONLY points coming in contact with the snow. Like I said it was a hypothesis, and would need testing.

I don't alter my technique when tuning those edges, as a normal file and guide and still sharpen along the contours of the edge. MTX needs a smaller file guide or you just have to do it freehand.
02-04-2013 12:19 PM
Extremo
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigmountainVMD View Post
On a smooth edge, pressure from the weight is being distributed over the whole edge... so a certain pressure on every given point of the edge. With MTX, you have 7 contact points, so more pressure is being put on each point (pressure from the non-contact troughs is being placed on the peaks), so as the edges begin to dull, there is more pressure pushing those points into the ice, thus better grip. If I'm not mistaken, the formula for friction on a given point is F=u*N, where u = the coefficient of friction, same for all edges made of the same metal, and N = the amount of perpendicular force (to the ice) at that point. N would be less on a camber board because the force from a given weight would be less for every point in contact with the ice. N would be greater on an MTX board, because the force from the troughs would be placed on the peaks, therefore increasing their friction... or edge hold. Every point on the board can withstand a certain amount of force pushing it down the ice, and that amount of force is reduced as the edges get more dull, but increased as the force perpendicular to the ice increases (in other words, the force pushing the edge INTO the ice). With the greater amounts of force perpendicular to the ice on the 7 MTX contact points vs. the camber deck, it increases the threshold amount of force the edge can handle before it is pushed down the ice.

Now that is some fucking hypothesizing worthy of scientific laboratory study.
So if you applied this same logic to two contact points like the Arbor provides you'd have more grip than you would with 7. Interesting.

Anyone have any experience hand tuning the Grip Tech/Frostbite style edges?
02-04-2013 11:42 AM
BigmountainVMD
Quote:
Originally Posted by binarypie View Post
Proper maintenance will make the largest difference regardless of how many contact points your edge has.
Totally agree, but the issue is how much do you want to tune? Some of us are religious about waxing and tuning, so it is not as big of a deal. If you only wax your base and sharpen your edges once a season, like many people, having MTX and an extruded base is the perfect cocktail for care free shredding.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Extremo View Post
Yeah I'm going to say the same. As the edges get dull MTX may possibly have the advantage, I'm not sure, I've never taken the time to compare. But both edge profiles out of the box and freshly tuned I coulnd't feel a difference. Both edges, sharp, grip more than enough.
This is where I've felt the difference in MTX vs other edge tech. My C2BTX T. Rice gripped almost as hard on day 30 as day 1 w/o any sharpening. My NS Proto most certainly had less hold after 10 days than it did on day 1. It just pushed me to sharpen more frequently, but when I did, it held like a dream.

Quote:
Originally Posted by vknyvz View Post
it all comes down to maintenance and it doesn't matter what your board's profile is, nope this is not my personal opinion rather a lab test,

check it out here
Snowboard Edge Test - Ice Breakers - The-House.com

also i just picked up a board Never Summer Cobra man it holds ice like it is nothing!!
That is the most bullshit test I have ever seen, and to call it a "lab" test is insulting to the science community. Different riders = different speed out of the slingshot, different bindings = varying levels of edge control, and WTF does a flat 180 or butter have to do with edge hold? If you look at the video, half of them can't even stand up and are falling all over the place.

They should have tested the same way they test climbing shoe rubber. Take a piece of the rubber, but a standarized weight on it, and place it on a given material (fake rock or whatever). Then increase the angle of the rock face and the rubber with the highest coefficient of friction can withstand the steepest angle.

Same would for for the edge tech. Make a mini version of each edge and profile... like a foot wide... and mount it to 2 parallel runners (to keep the edge at a given angle) and attach to an ice block. Add weight to the edge and increase the incline of the ice block until the edge begins to slide down the runners/ice block. Whichever edge does not slide at the steepest angle would have the greatest edge hold.

I'm willing to bet that a camber profile would win initially... but if this was a lab, the results would have to be reproducible. Perform the same test 1000 times... 5000 times... to replicate riding on an edge for a week or whatever, then you would see the edges getting a bit more dull and I think the MTX would hold better.

Something else I've been thinking about in terms of edges dulling...

On a smooth edge, pressure from the weight is being distributed over the whole edge... so a certain pressure on every given point of the edge. With MTX, you have 7 contact points, so more pressure is being put on each point (pressure from the non-contact troughs is being placed on the peaks), so as the edges begin to dull, there is more pressure pushing those points into the ice, thus better grip. If I'm not mistaken, the formula for friction on a given point is F=u*N, where u = the coefficient of friction, same for all edges made of the same metal, and N = the amount of perpendicular force (to the ice) at that point. N would be less on a camber board because the force from a given weight would be less for every point in contact with the ice. N would be greater on an MTX board, because the force from the troughs would be placed on the peaks, therefore increasing their friction... or edge hold. Every point on the board can withstand a certain amount of force pushing it down the ice, and that amount of force is reduced as the edges get more dull, but increased as the force perpendicular to the ice increases (in other words, the force pushing the edge INTO the ice). With the greater amounts of force perpendicular to the ice on the 7 MTX contact points vs. the camber deck, it increases the threshold amount of force the edge can handle before it is pushed down the ice.

Now that is some fucking hypothesizing worthy of scientific laboratory study.
02-04-2013 11:42 AM
poutanen
Quote:
Originally Posted by Extremo View Post
They tested the Ride DH which is straight edge camber. If that's what you meant.
Ah my bad, I was looking at the edge tech section of the chart and "radial" didn't stick out as "traditional" to me...
02-04-2013 11:29 AM
Hurricane
Quote:
Originally Posted by john doe View Post
Carving on ice you want a cambered board with a razor sharp edge.

General cruising around with mostly skidded turns then I would take magnetraction every time. I ride a Smokin that has magnetraction because of the ice I have to deal with at my local hill.
I have to agree you need to look for something with camber, rockers are no fun on ice. I ride the same place as john doe, Missouri, and we deal with ice on a regular basis. John Doe I saw you out at HV Friday night, recognized your board.
02-04-2013 11:04 AM
Extremo
Quote:
Originally Posted by poutanen View Post
Unfortunately they didn't test a regular straight edged board (that I saw) in that article, just the various edge techs vs each other.
They tested the Ride DH which is straight edge camber. If that's what you meant.
02-04-2013 10:54 AM
wernersl
Quote:
Originally Posted by RockSteady View Post
If you hit Fire Break last year, god bless your board, your lucky it's alive...I destroyed 2 boards last year trying to ride in the trees. Worst year ive seen in Tahoe in my 12 years up here
That was early January this year! Not much fresh left when we went down. Took a nice couple of gouges, but that base is really strong. Nothing down to the core, thankfully.
02-04-2013 10:53 AM
poutanen
Quote:
Originally Posted by vknyvz View Post
it all comes down to maintenance and it doesn't matter what your board's profile is, nope this is not my personal opinion rather a lab test,

check it out here
Snowboard Edge Test - Ice Breakers - The-House.com
Unfortunately they didn't test a regular straight edged board (that I saw) in that article, just the various edge techs vs each other.
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