Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums banner

Moving to Seattle. AWD car?

32K views 94 replies 24 participants last post by  tiga2001 
#1 ·
So I know a lot of you guys live in the PNW, or used to at least. Last time I was on these forums was with Snowolf. I am finally moving out west to he Tacoma area. I have a FWD Rav4. I was wondering if I am gonna have to trade up for the sport version with 4WD. I am not looking to go barreling through storms. Just when there is a pow day after a big storm it'd be nice to be able to make it up to the Cascades and ride.

Am I good with just FWD and snow tires as long as I don't try to get through passes during a storm? Do I need chains? Do I need AWD?

Unfortunately with my car I don't think I have the clearance for chains so I really wanna know if I can risk it as long as I'm realistic.

Thanks
 
#2 ·
I90 requires you have chains to get up to Snoqualmie if you're not 4wd/awd. There are quite a few days where the pass is like that as well and that requirement begins many miles before you're close to the resort. As far as crystal Mt, with it being a one lane road each way, I wouldn't risk it if it was snowy on just fwd without chains.

TLDR: there will be times you need chains for a fwd/rwd car. Those times will most likely be on pow days. I reccomended getting something awd/4wd, even if it's just a beater so long as your finances allow it

Sent from my SM-G920V using Tapatalk
 
#3 ·
Hey, congrats on the choice to head out this way! In reality a front wheel drive rig with good snow tires or even studded tires will go thru hell and back. My suggestion is this... before you go spending lots of money on a different vehicle maybe the best first step would be running by a reputable tire dealer and asking their thoughts on whether or not you can run chains on your vehicle... might save money and hassle? Also keep in mind if you can not run chains there are some newer chain like alternatives that DOT says are equal to when chains are required. Just my thoughts. Good luck on the move!
 
#5 ·
I have a 4x4 truck with snow tires, my son has a subbie outback with snow tires and my wife has a fwd coupe with studded tires. My son and I have zero issues on any powder days. My wife doesnt even bother if we arent there to drive her on a powder day. Her car just does not handle snow well. She has been stuck a few times too. I have driven through a 48" in 2 day snow storm to stevens as well as 36" in 2 days at crystal while pulling my rv with my truck in 4x4, no issues.

It isnt just the tires, you need proper weight distribution on a 2wd/fwd car.... I have also pulled out ALOT of fwd and low clearence awd cars.

Do you want the car to be a determining factor on if you get to go ride on your day off on a pow day? Can you afford to get a different car?

If you answer those as no/yes, get an awd high clearance vehicle.
 
#6 ·
I have a Trailblazer and drive religiously up to Hood, taken it to Bachy, Whitewater, Baker, Crystal, you name it, all with regular tires, carry chains but with the 4x4 I've never even bothered to put them on, good driving is the most important part of the kit. I've also driven a tiny Pontiac Vibe with studless snow tires around pretty much everywhere in the PNW. With the exception of CRAZY pow days never head a problem, just keep a shovel on hand in case of a ridiculous drift but usually traffic at any of the resorts is enough to allow for clearance if you are a good enough driver to stay on the road.
 
#7 ·
So I know a lot of you guys live in the PNW, or used to at least. Last time I was on these forums was with Snowolf. I am finally moving out west to he Tacoma area. I have a FWD Rav4. I was wondering if I am gonna have to trade up for the sport version with 4WD. I am not looking to go barreling through storms. Just when there is a pow day after a big storm it'd be nice to be able to make it up to the Cascades and ride.
First of all, read this article, there is a lot of misinformation around about AWD/4WD.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glo...-why-it-can-be-a-deadly-trap/article26902236/


Am I good with just FWD and snow tires as long as I don't try to get through passes during a storm? Do I need chains? Do I need AWD?
Winter tires and FWD is perfectly fine. I drive from Vancouver to Calgary and back multiple times a year. I've done it in winter with anything from a FWD Fiat 500 to a AWD Ford escape. I've never had issues because I use good winter tires. Get a set of Bridgestone Blizzaks and drive carefully, like everyone should in snow.

I have live all over Canada and driven in every type of winter condition imaginable, including during an ice storm in Quebec (I recommend staying at home in these conditions actually). Winter tires is where it's at!


Unfortunately with my car I don't think I have the clearance for chains so I really wanna know if I can risk it as long as I'm realistic.

Thanks
You probably don't need snowchains as proper winter tires are more than enough. However if you want snowchains then you can get them. Snowchains fit on any vehicle, I have a set for my FWD golf. If you are worried about clearance get the Thule Self-Tensioning, Low-Profile Snow Tire Chains. They are also really well rated.


I was wondering if I am gonna have to trade up for the sport version with 4WD.
You don't "have" to, but if you want to go ahead. ;)
 
#9 · (Edited)
First of all, read this article, there is a lot of misinformation around about AWD/4WD.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/glo...-why-it-can-be-a-deadly-trap/article26902236/


Winter tires and FWD is perfectly fine. I drive from Vancouver to Calgary and back multiple times a year. I've done it in winter with anything from a FWD Fiat 500 to a AWD Ford escape. I've never had issues because I use good winter tires. Get a set of Bridgestone Blizzaks and drive carefully, like everyone should in snow.

I have live all over Canada and driven in every type of winter condition imaginable, including during an ice storm in Quebec (I recommend staying at home in these conditions actually). Winter tires is where it's at!


You probably don't need snowchains as proper winter tires are more than enough. However if you want snowchains then you can get them. Snowchains fit on any vehicle, I have a set for my FWD golf. If you are worried about clearance get the Thule Self-Tensioning, Low-Profile Snow Tire Chains. They are also really well rated.



You don't "have" to, but if you want to go ahead. ;)
That's a very stupid article.
So the starting argument is some jerry went off the ditch and wondered "I don't get it. I have AWD"?
I stopped reading right there.


Yeah AWD and all season tires is probably not better than fwd and winter tires. But AWD with winter tires is best.


OP: If you like powder..... get an AWD.
And put winter tires on it. It is waaaaaaay better.

Doesnt need to be TODAY. Next year? or maybe in 2 yrs...... whatever. But when you do get a new car....... get AWD.

Yeah in certain conditions, AWD has no more stopping or turning power than fwd or rwd.... BUT pretty much under any real life scenario, the AWD wheels help catch the car back from a slide; not by added braking power nor added turning power.... but by the extra traction from the non-spinning wheels which helps you re-gain direction if you're caught in a micro spin.

It's also better in rain and mud.

Downsides... you need to change all 4 tires when they wear out. And the car is heavier (ie worse fuel econ) due to to the extra driving parts.
 
#8 ·
One thing I am not sure some are aware of.... In Washington state there is a stupid law... When chains are required on the passes, all vehicles must chain up, except 4x4/AWD vehicles, but they must physically have chains with them. If you spin out and get stuck blocking traffic and get caught without its a big fine. Just an fyi...
 
#13 ·
Hmm. Sounds like chains might satisfy my needs for now. I grew up in WNY where its as shitty as it can get for snow conditions without mountains. So luckily I do know how to drive. But I've never driven in the mountains so I wouldn't know.

I am probably gonna go with chains and see if that'll get me up to the mountains on a pow day. If not, then I'll most likely see if I could afford trading in my Rav4 for the 4WD sport version.

Dumb question, but if you have chains do you even need snow tires? Seem kind of overkill to me. Or can you only have chains on you tires for certain roads?


Thanks for all the info guys. Nice to see I won't have to definitely buy a new car as I just bought this one 6 months ago.
 
#18 ·
Well I don't mean I'd buy a 4K car. Those days are over for me....thankfully.I would have to drop that possibly to switch between my Rav4 and the sport version.


And it's not question of is 4WD better. It's more can I get to the places I need to out in the PNW with FWD and chains? Or do you need AWD? Storm of the year, yea, I know I'm not gonna be driving in it. But after it passes will I be able to get up to mountains?

After looking up chains it sounds like a total pain in the ass too. Putting them on each time you want to go to the mountains and then taking them off each time you get down. Only being able to go 30mph? AWD might just be a peace of mind thing too.
 
#20 · (Edited)
Only being able to go 30mph?
Don't just get 4WD/AWD to try to break land speed records getting to the mountain. Every snowstorm you can find Subarus in precarious situations on the sides of the highways around here from idiots who thought they could still drive 70mph because they have a Subaru. That's what I refer to Subis as, ditch liners because that's what the idiot drivers turn them into. It's not the cars' fault, it's the dimwitted morons behind the wheel. My personal favorite are the ones with the giant wing off the back who think they're fucking Ken Block. Those are pretty damn near guaranteed to be found in the ditch.
 
#22 · (Edited)
I got my son an outback that came with snow tires on it. I paid $1000. I had the timing belt replaced for $400 at the dealership. He put 12k miles on it this year including a couple trips to WA, one to CO and one to tahoe. Well Over 100 days to Bachelor during a very snowy year in the NW. He is 17 and the car has been awesome.

Make sure you get the cables or chains, its the law all over 5he west coast.

Fwiw the 4x4 with chains is the law in most states too, usually conditions are so bad that the roads closed rather than have that r rating.

You can not get around chains on the good pow days. You can get studded tires.... still need chains occasionally though
 
#27 ·
I think what you need to consider is this: Do you want to spend money on winter tires for normal winter driving + snow chains for those freak times of massive accumulation of snow (Do not drive with chains on pavement!), or do you want to buy an AWD/4WD vehicle + winter tires. Either way you are going to need to buy winter tires to drive in any temp below 40F.

Below 40F all-season tires start to become hard, like a chocolate bar in your fridge, and because of that they loose traction. Winter tires stay soft at much lower temperatures. So even if you never go near a snowflake, if you really want traction in freezing temperatures, winter tires are the way to go. In your case you're going up a mountain in the winter, best traction in ice/snow/slush is winter tires. :)
 
#28 ·
Either way you are going to need to buy winter tires to drive in any temp below 40F.

Below 40F all-season tires start to become hard, like a chocolate bar in your fridge, and because of that they loose traction. Winter tires stay soft at much lower temperatures. So even if you never go near a snowflake, if you really want traction in freezing temperatures, winter tires are the way to go.
Good grief... are some people really this paranoid or terrible at driving?
 
#34 ·
At this point it sounds like AWD is my only option unless there is some alternative to chains that allow you to leave them on for a few miles that will also pass the required chain laws.

Thanks for all the help guys!

Unfortunate it's not the news I wanted to hear, but so it goes. :dry:
 
#43 ·
FWIW I drove all over interior BC for the last 3 years in a FWD, Hyundai Santa Fe with a pretty wimpy 4 cylinder engine, decent clearance, a manual / stick transmission, and good snow tires in the winter (studless)

Drove it on everything from gnarly logging roads in the summer to mountain roads in the winter. I only got stuck twice in the mud on a steep hill, after a rainfall. My guess is AWD would have helped in these situations.

Personally love the stick shift in the winter since you can easily gear down on hills etc.

That said, next car will have AWD and enough power to tow something decent
 
#49 ·
The law states that a tire with m/s (mountain snowflake OR mud/snow) is classified and acceptable for the winter driving. I have driven around 250k miles with mountain snowflake tires on my truck with 4x4 on about 100k of it. We travel for competition in winter through snow to mountains. I have been stopped during chain enforcement in WA, OR and CA and the troopers say the same thing. I use goodyear duratrac on ny truck year round. Unlike most of the people commenting, I ride 100 days a year and travel ALOT in northern states/canada(45k miles on my truck alone in the last year).

If you can afford it, get awd. If you cant afford it get good snow tires and suffer through chains. I CAN afford it and will never have a 2wd as my vehicle. My wife likes her car and since she doesnt need to drive herself to the mountain fwd and studded tires are great for around the town. I'm guessing people spouting off about how great 2wd is would upgrade in a heart beat if money wasnt a determining factor.
 
#54 ·
The law states that a tire with m/s (mountain snowflake OR mud/snow) is classified and acceptable for the winter driving. I have driven around 250k miles with mountain snowflake tires on my truck with 4x4 on about 100k of it. We travel for competition in winter through snow to mountains. I have been stopped during chain enforcement in WA, OR and CA and the troopers say the same thing. I use goodyear duratrac on ny truck year round. Unlike most of the people commenting, I ride 100 days a year and travel ALOT in northern states/canada(45k miles on my truck alone in the last year).
In California I probably wouldn't run winter tires either, pretty sure All-Seasons are fine there. :)

In Canada you must by law have winter tires in certain provinces during winter and even in those where it's not, any mountain road in winter has a requirement for winter tires, regardless of fwd, or awd/4wd (or rwd). If you drive in Canada with all seasons in a mountain pass you can/will get a fine. So be careful.
Winter tire rules take effect on B.C. highways as snow flies in the northeast - British Columbia - CBC News

In Washington State by law you can use M+S tires in winter. However beyond the law, if you are driving up mountains and in bad snowy roads and you want to get your vehicle safely, winter tires are what you want.

OP: Your question of do you "need" to get AWD is solved, you don't "need to", you can use proper tires (Law says M+S or winter but for your type of use you should get winter tires). Buy some low profile Thule easy on chains and go about your merry way.

If you want to upgrade to AWD go ahead, nothing wrong with that! But it's about what you want, not what you need. :)

As for your worry of getting places safely, google images of "coquihalla snow" that is what I drive through, with a Fwd car with good winter tires, and have had no problems. I have personally witnessed dozens of 4wd trucks and Awd SUVs hit the barriers or the ditch (and a handful of fwd cars). Almost all of them were driving with All-seasons, a couple even had summer tires. It makes my trips slow to pull over for all those people to make sure they are ok. Drive carefully and equip yourself correctly.
 
#51 ·
I'm looking at 4WD Rav4s right now. Apparently it's a rare thing to find in the south. I am probably going to suffer through chains for a season too see how bad it is and then try and switch the AWD. I'm an outdoor guy and like camping so to me if I'm gonna buy my last car I shouldn't have to put chains on it everytime I drive.




Just a quick thought about all the arguing.......Mountain passes seem a lot different than driving in the snow in the Northeast. I grew up there. I know how bad it gets, but there isn't mountains and they're not like out west. I think I would survive getting to the mountains in FWD with good tires or chains, but I want to get there any day that wouldn't be dangerous for an AWD. Best pow is then!
 
#53 ·
I'm looking at 4WD Rav4s right now. Apparently it's a rare thing to find in the south. I am probably going to suffer through chains for a season too see how bad it is and then try and switch the AWD. I'm an outdoor guy and like camping so to me if I'm gonna buy my last car I shouldn't have to put chains on it everytime I drive.









Just a quick thought about all the arguing.......Mountain passes seem a lot different than driving in the snow in the Northeast. I grew up there. I know how bad it gets, but there isn't mountains and they're not like out west. I think I would survive getting to the mountains in FWD with good tires or chains, but I want to get there any day that wouldn't be dangerous for an AWD. Best pow is then!


True story that mountains out west are very different than any driving here in the east. I grew up in Southern California and even the big bear (summit, bear mtn, etc) roads are tough.

I don't think the arguments are about whether or not extra safety features are a good idea. The answer is always yes. Whether or not someone can afford awd is aside from the fact. I was just arguing the idea that anything 40f or below requires winter tires.

FWD cars in a dangerous pass should most definitely use winter tires and or chains. AWD/4WD cars should also probably use such things on a dangerous pass.

One point being made is that all the safety features in the world won't change the fact that trips like these DO IN FACT require a level of caution or skill to make things as safe as we would all like.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
#52 ·
Not sure why people deal in absolutes in these posts. Plenty of cars that make it through every winter that don't come close to meeting what previous posts say should be required. And plenty of cars decked out with what they 'should' have that end up on the side of the road.

Using your head while on the road is the best tool for the job. And sometimes that may mean waiting it out a day regardless of what you have spent.
 
#55 · (Edited)



So maybe I'm judging wrong, but from what I see this just seems kind of the same as a shitty day in the east, except everyone is still trying to treat the road like a highway. I'm not there so I don't know, but from those videos I've driven in this weather with a Saturn with snow tires and couldn't get stuck when I tried. I took a seasonal road with a foot of fresh snow on it and was fine.

Is this the bad weather where chains and AWD are required? Or is is like the road is totally covered with a few inches?
 
#60 · (Edited)
So maybe I'm judging wrong, but from what I see this just seems kind of the same as a shitty day in the east, except everyone is still trying to treat the road like a highway. I'm not there so I don't know, but from those videos I've driven in this weather with a Saturn with snow tires and couldn't get stuck when I tried. I took a seasonal road with a foot of fresh snow on it and was fine.

Is this the bad weather where chains and AWD are required? Or is is like the road is totally covered with a few inches?
The first video looks more like a lot of the traction tires required days or the days when they are only requiring chains for the last few miles to the summit. The second video looks like an average chains required day for Snoqualmie pass. That said this season I went to Snoqualmie twice a weekend almost every weekend and I had to deal with only a handful of chains required days. And I would assume you would be going to Crystal from Tacoma, not Snoqualmie and I have no clue what that pass is like during chains required conditions.
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top