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Old 03-18-2013, 12:37 PM   #121 (permalink)
jtg
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Also, don't they close Hwy 2 and bomb when there is an avalanche risk? Were they really putting motorists in danger?
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:41 PM   #122 (permalink)
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that's a pretty broad generalization, NEWS FLASH! BC gear does not instantly make you smart, and/or safe when doing side country travel... just because someone is hiking that area without gear does not make them idiots... gear is a backup, if the shit hits the fan... perhaps they have been riding up there a lot longer than you, and just because of one giant slide that killed 3 people, they chose to not let it change everything about the way they do things. some choose to wear gear, some don't, why let it piss you off so much? why do you care? with an attitude like yours you'd likely be one of the first to start a thread on this site and say "i told you so you fucking idiots" if someone died back there again, with or without gear... so don't act like you care, and don't be a gear nazi. you sound just like the helmet nazis... gear or not, people die in avalanches, you can't judge someones intelligence by a backpack. just take care of yourself and stop worrying so much about others; you can't save everyone. /rant
I admit, you're right....just because you don't have gear doesn't mean you're completely ignorant of the situation you're putting yourself into. I still think it's poor form and sets a bad example. What IF something goes wrong? Mother Nature is a bitch, you can't predict when she's gonna pull the carpet out from under you. You can give your best guess given the conditions/snowpack, but you're never sure. THAT'S how people die.

The reason I let it bother me is how uneducated backcountry users put others (even outside of their own group) in harms way. Not just riding w/o if something does happen. Like dropping on a suspect slope with others on or below the slope. Or dropping the biggest slide path above Hwy 2 when it's obviously been loaded, like I saw yesterday. Those are signs of uneducated BC users and puts many others at risk. That's where these dumbasses put ME (and many others) at risk and it becomes MY problem.

This is not even comparable to not wearing a helmet. By choosing not to wear a helmet, you're only putting yourself at risk. That's your own decision and doesn't affect me. Not being prepared or knowledgeable in the backcountry certainly affects me and everyone else around you in the BC.

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Old 03-18-2013, 12:43 PM   #123 (permalink)
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Also, don't they close Hwy 2 and bomb when there is an avalanche risk? Were they really putting motorists in danger?
They bomb to prevent natural slides, not for skier loading. Just because the DOT doesn't perform avy control doesn't mean it's a safe slope to ride.
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Old 03-18-2013, 12:52 PM   #124 (permalink)
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I admit, you're right....just because you don't have gear doesn't mean you're completely ignorant of the situation you're putting yourself into. I still think it's poor form and sets a bad example. What IF something goes wrong? Mother Nature is a bitch, you can't predict when she's gonna pull the carpet out from under you. You can give your best guess given the conditions/snowpack, but you're never sure. THAT'S how people die.

The reason I let it bother me is how uneducated back country users put others (even outside of their own group) in harms way. Not just riding w/o if something does happen. Like dropping on a suspect slope with others on or below the slope. Or dropping the biggest slide path above Hwy 2 when it's obviously been loaded, like I saw yesterday. Those are signs of uneducated BC users and puts many others at risk. That's where these dumbasses put ME (and many others) at risk and it becomes MY problem.
i hear you, but unfortunately that is the nature of riding/hiking in an uncontrolled area, the more popular is gets, the more people are going to head back there educated or not... i hike back there with and without gear, but only if i know for certain what the snow is doing the days leading up to... i get a lot of pow all year long so the extra risks on heavily loaded days are not worth it to me, gear or not... and there is plenty of stash pow at stevens to find in and just out of bounds. how do you propose to have control over those above you, in an area that is uncontrolled? you can't control mother nature, and everyone out there is taking that risk, and that is a risk you are taking as well... with or without gear

and try not to rely on others outside your group for your own feeling of safety... i'll admit sometimes i've fell more safe, and sometimes less when i've see people dropping into certain areas... as in, is one of these guys going to bury us? there is no formula, and way too many variables to worry about, at some point you just have to try to enjoy yourself and drop in. i like to think whether or not i chose to wear gear when i go into the backcountry, some guy won't give me a dirty look as if somehow i'm putting his life at risk for being back there at the same time he is... we all have business being out there, and we all have to cover our own asses however we wish to do that.

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Old 03-20-2013, 09:00 AM   #125 (permalink)
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Low temps and 12 to 22" of fresh by tomorrow in the Cascades, looks like the FISH will need one more wax job before it's put away for the summer.

4 or 5 of us heading up tomorrow, yet another sick day

Last edited by Clayton Bigsby; 03-20-2013 at 09:01 AM. Reason: to edit sentence
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Old 03-20-2013, 10:19 AM   #126 (permalink)
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Low temps and 12 to 22" of fresh by tomorrow in the Cascades, looks like the FISH will need one more wax job before it's put away for the summer.

4 or 5 of us heading up tomorrow, yet another sick day
I'll be there Friday. Should have 3 ft on new snow in 3 days
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Old 03-20-2013, 12:54 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Jesus Christ people, it blows my mind how fucking ignorant so many people are about the backcountry around Stevens Pass. Especially since the Tunnel Creek incident last year.

It boggles my mind how many people I see hiking either to Hollywood or towards Wenatchee/Highlands without gear. Specifically yesterday with the high loading of snow and wind. The thing that REALLY set me off yesterday was heading home and seeing 4 snowboarders hiking up Hwy 2 back to the resort, no BC gear whatsoever. Turns out they rode right down one of the biggest slide paths coming down from Grace Lakes to the highway. Not only did they put themselves in danger, but every motorist that crossed that slide path while they were on the slope above.

Since Tunnel Creek last year, I do see more people riding Stevens with gear, but it seems like there's even more riding the backcountry adjacent to Stevens with no gear. It's only a matter of time before someone gets themselves in a bad situation or even killed.

/rant
I had a discussion about stevens boundaries with my buddy last weekend. We both grew up riding stevens and now live in bozeman. I feel that the how stevens marks the boundaries has too much gray area. You have a handful of hikes that are technically out of bounds but the terrain is skied and bombed by patrol as the terrain sits above inbounds areas. Such as piste point, front side of cowboy, death chutes, power lines section of rooster. From these same hikes you can drop off the other side into terrain that sees no avy control. I ride at Bridger Bowl where they have inbounds terrain that requires a beacon. This keeps the unknowning out of trouble and shows all that this terrain deserves more respect. I believe it would benefit stevens to promote these inbounds hikes and control them with a beacon check point. Also clearly mark what leads back inbounds and what leads away from the area.

The back country sector of the sport is growing at a fast rate, how and if new rules are enacted are going to depend on how responsible the users are. I would hate to see ski area to go back to closed boundaries that were the norm in the 90's.

If you dont have gear, your not rolling with my crew, thats how i see it. If your not an experienced rider, dont expect to come along ether, the backcountry is no area to learn to ride.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:00 PM   #128 (permalink)
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hey weath, doesnt baker require full bc gear to exit the the area. If your caught expect your pass pulled, or harassment by the locals. Thats how i've heard it explained.

Does Alpy still require the BC user card to access the High T.
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Old 03-20-2013, 01:36 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Doesn't it depend on the terrain? It seems like there is no reason why one can't learn in the backcountry if they choose their location carefully. I realize that this is probably not anywhere near walking distance from stevens though.

I've heard some resorts say that part of the reason for the change in boundary enforcement is because they technically have no right to say who can and can't go on public land. Which makes sense. I'm sure part of it also has to do with drawing more people to the resorts as well though. But if I want to leave your resort, you can't take my ticket away...that's BS.

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Old 03-20-2013, 01:51 PM   #130 (permalink)
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As long as your leave through an appropriate gate or the ski area has an open boundary policy, they should not be taking your pass.

The uneducated guys you see walking from BC runs on the pass, most likely have no idea the situation they are putting themselves into. I know it's crazy, but even with all the awareness we have pushed around Berthoud Pass, I still see a ton of people without gear and not a clue as to what they are doing.

Typically if I get to chat with those groups, I give them my FOBP card and encourage them to check us out. Hopefully they will continue to either get on relatively safe backcountry terrain, or continue to get lucky. You can only lead a horse to water.

Also, keep in mind that most of the avalanche fatalities that have happened in the last few years, the victims have had education and gear. Of course they knew what the consequences were versus these other groups who may have no idea what they are getting into.
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