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Old 05-26-2013, 09:35 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by timmytard View Post
What the fuck is wrong with you?????

Why are you paying full price for anything?

Here, go buy next years Proto, brand new, $445.

Never Summer Snowboard Proto 2014

Save a couple hundred bucks, Write HD on it with a sharpie.
You won't even know the diff?


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nice one Timmy! Couldn't stop laughing at these comments.

Btw, MUCH better avatar than your recent ones.
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Old 05-26-2013, 09:43 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Trust me. I work in the internet marketing space and I know the rules very well, probably better than anyone on this forum. The FTC didn't make those rules for what you're trying to apply them here.

Do you really think the FTC is going to call up some reviewer on the forum and say "Hey, you said those board had great edge hold. We tried it and it only has mediocre edge hold. You lied!" Heck no. Board performance is very subjective and you'd have a nightmare trying to prove someone didn't get that benefit when they rode a certain snowboard.

Of course they can't make false claims about the chemical properties of a jacket, but the fact that you have to go to such a bizarrely specific example that no one would ever say is the point I'm trying to make. A more probable situation is someone reviewing the jacket who would say they "stayed dry when they wore it on a wet day on the slopes" and you can't prove/disprove that easily without context and specific circumstances.

Your last line sums it up: "If you're giving opinions regarding taste and preference or your own experiences you can say whatever you want as far as that goes."
Sure, I agree with all that. It's true that it's going to be difficult to run afoul of some of those points just due to the nature of how reviews are written (on the other hand, I do have specific examples from this forum, but it's not worth calling out), and the point isn't to say that the FTC will be here to bust posters who stretch the truth (you are incorrect about how burden of proof works though, not that it matters, but the endorser has to be able to back up what they say, it's not on the complainant to prove they were lying). The main point is going to be the disclosure issue. And if you don't disclose, sure, you're probably not going to get a fine, but if it's an ongoing widespread abuse, you might bring unwanted heat on the company you're shilling for, and you'll probably lose some face for not being up front about it.

In one case that you're probably aware of, the company was fined $250,000 for fake reviews on instructional guitar videos. Another was slapped for employees reviewing their own iphone app in the itunes store.

Last edited by jtg; 05-26-2013 at 10:02 PM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:03 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Sure, I agree with all that. It's true that it's going to be difficult to run afoul of some of those points just due to the nature of how reviews are written (on the other hand, I do have specific examples from this forum, but it's not worth calling out), and the point isn't to say that the FTC will be here to bust posters who stretch the truth (you are incorrect about how burden of proof works though, not that it matters, but the endorser has to be able to back up what they say, it's not on the complainant to prove they were lying). The main point is going to be the disclosure issue. And if you don't disclose, sure, you're probably not going to get a fine, but if it's an ongoing widespread abuse, you might bring unwanted heat on the company you're shilling for, and you'll probably lose some face for not being up front about it. In one case that you're probably aware of, the company was fined $250,000 for fake reviews on instructional guitar videos. Another was slapped for employees reviewing their own iphone app in the itunes store.
The thing is I actually have no problems with making these rules as guidelines for reviews. However, I won't be telling anyone that they are in any danger from the FTC when they aren't and will never be in danger in this context.

Of course I know the example burden of proof doesn't work the way I gave it in that example, but it was just a ridiculous example that would never happen to show that the FTC isn't going to do any of that. Heck, if the FTC targets you they'll just tell you how they think you screwed up and hit you with a smackdown and fine. They won't be asking anyone for proof of anything before giving judgement.

The main thing here is I'm not actually disagreeing that these rules shouldn't be guidelines to writing a review, they're good rules to follow from an ethical reviewer stance, however, there's zero chance that the FTC will get involved in this context.

This disclosure issue with reviews has been talked about in length already and can continue to be talked about without bringing any FTC stuff into this case because it frankly doesn't apply to our context.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:14 PM   #14 (permalink)
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This disclosure issue with reviews has been talked about in length already and can continue to be talked about without bringing any FTC stuff into this case because it frankly doesn't apply to our context.
I don't know how it can be more clear that it does. You're either not reading the sources or you're willfully ignoring it.

FTC Continues to Flex Its Enforcement Muscle With Regard to Social Media Promotional Activity : TMT Law Watch

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Material Connection
The first public FTC investigation in this area concerned a division of the popular fashion company Ann Taylor Stores Corp., LOFT. The FTC investigation of LOFT was prompted by an exclusive event held by the company in January 2010 where it invited bloggers to preview the store’s 2010 summer collection. FTC focused on LOFT’s provision of gifts to bloggers with the expectation that they would blog about the event. FTC was concerned that bloggers failed to disclose that they received gifts for posting blog content.
If you want to say that it applies to blogging about handbags, posting reviews of guitar videos and video games, but NOT snowboards, well, ok I guess

Edit: Ah, I just clicked your info and you seem to be a blogger who makes gear recommendations. Your odd interpretation of the rules makes more sense now

Last edited by jtg; 05-26-2013 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:28 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I don't know how it can be more clear that it does. You're either not reading the sources or you're willfully ignoring it.

FTC Continues to Flex Its Enforcement Muscle With Regard to Social Media Promotional Activity : TMT Law Watch



If you want to say that it applies to blogging about handbags, posting reviews of guitar videos and video games, but NOT snowboards, well, ok I guess
It seems you're trying to tackle the issue that came up with the whole NeverSummer thing. It's true that could have been under FTC guidelines, but I'm not talking about the Never Summer incident, I'm talking about people who posts reviews on the forums as individuals not representative of any company.

If you want to make a thread about how the Never Summer incident broke FTC rules, go for it, but it's not something that applies to the regular posters who don't represent any website/company/blog.
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Old 05-26-2013, 10:37 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Edit: Ah, I just clicked your info and you seem to be a blogger who makes gear recommendations. Your odd interpretation of the rules makes more sense now
Oh so you want to attack my credibility and website now?

Anyone on this forum can vouch for how I treat people who read my website. I take care of every single reader on my site and I suggest you back off because you have no idea what you're talking about if you're going to come after me on that front.

You want to know what affiliate relationships I have on my website? Here, I can list them for you:

- Lifeproof because I use their iphone case and it rocks.
- Snowboard Addiction trick tips because I've personally paid for coaching, trained with, lived with and know the owner of the company.
- World Nomads travel insurance because I've used and claimed money from them almost every single season that I've been snowboarding

And you know what? I bought every single one of those things with my own money before I recommended them. Fact is I refuse to put more ads and affiliate deals on my website because I value the trust my readers have in what I write and recommend. Not to mention I have a disclosure telling people that those 3 links on my site are affiliate links.

Oh and for the record those 3 affiliate deals don't even make enough to cover the cost of running my website (which by the way isn't really about gear recommendations).

I only promote products I personally use, regardless of whether it makes me money or not and I've even refused donations from readers who wanted to donate to the website.

So you can kindly back off and go back to talking about something you actually have a clue about because you're so far out of line it's not funny.
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Last edited by Jed; 05-26-2013 at 11:06 PM.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:11 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Oh so you want to attack my credibility and website now?

Anyone on this forum can vouch for how I treat people who read my website. I take care of every single reader on my site and I suggest you back off because you have no idea what you're talking about if you're going to come after me on that front.

You want to know what affiliate relationships I have on my website? Here, I can list them for you:

- Lifeproof because I use their iphone case and it rocks.
- Snowboard Addiction trick tips because I've personally paid for coaching, trained with, lived with and know the owner of the company.
- World Nomads travel insurance because I've used and claimed money from them almost every single season that I've been snowboarding

And you know what? I bought every single one of those things with my own money before I recommended them. Fact is I refuse to put more ads and affiliate deals on my website because I value the trust my readers have in what I write and recommend. Not to mention I have a disclosure telling people that those 3 links on my site are affiliate links.

Oh and for the record those 3 affiliate deals don't even make enough to cover the cost of running my website (which by the way isn't really about gear recommendations).

I only promote products I personally use, regardless of whether it makes me money or not and I've even refused donations from readers who wanted to donate to the website.

So you can kindly back off and go back to talking about something you actually have a clue about because you're so far out of line it's not funny.
HaHA nice overreaction there buddy.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:14 AM   #18 (permalink)
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HaHA nice overreaction there buddy.
What he said


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Old 05-27-2013, 02:20 AM   #19 (permalink)
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HaHA nice overreaction there buddy.
Good reader relationships and trust are a sticking point for me. They're the one thing I pride my website on having and I like to believe they're the reason I have a high retention rate. In case it's not obvious I don't take kindly to people attacking the one thing I've worked to build up.

Sure a one line answer may have sufficed, but I'd rather put out all the information out there right away rather than have 50 back and forth replies with bits and pieces of info. If he wants to attack me or my website then he'll have to do it with all the facts on the table.
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Old 05-27-2013, 02:23 AM   #20 (permalink)
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You just look like a tard now lol
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