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Old 05-27-2013, 04:07 AM   #31 (permalink)
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BTW, you've probably already seen, but Snowboard Mag's media kit is even more blatant now than when you made your blog post a few years ago. Snowboard Mag Media Kit page 7.

They are a bit more careful about the wording now, even though though whole idea is still totally misleading. "The Platinum Picks is our guide to the newest and most interesting products of the season. It is not a product test, rather a look around the industry to see who is pushing design, materials, fashion and technology."

Do you know what the deal is with Good Wood? Their media kit only hints at it being for pay mentioning the event, not prices. I assume you pay to enter but not every brand gets named so it seems like it's not strictly pay to win. Either way, 1 ride down in the slush isn't very convincing to me. Especially when they rave about magnetraction during the test. Yeah I'm sure you shredded up all of the ice in May.
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:18 AM   #32 (permalink)
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The more you pay to advertise in Transworld the more likely you are to win a Good Wood award. Happened to Smokin like 5 plus years ago when they were doing the white topsheet/black base combo. Jay had 3 boards win, when TWS asked him if he wanted to advertise and he said no, they didn't let him into Good Wood the next year. It's part of the reason Kisel left running it. He said something like "Why do I even bother they've already figured out who is going to win back in the office a few months ago."
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:33 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Ok sorry. Here's the thing. If you get a free board, and you write a review, include a link, anything at all, then these guidelines apply to you. Doesn't matter if you're representing the company.

So, I just feel like it's odd of you to keep claiming the opposite of what it plainly says.
See if we can keep it civil and not personal attacks for no reason I'm happy to discuss this because honestly I agree that guidelines are good.

Here's the thing. I don't disagree with you on your points.

I think all 3 of your points are decent guidelines for a review and in general should be followed when applicable. I'm with you there and as BA said, there's a lot of crap out there that should abide more closely with those guidelines. I'm all for having guidelines.

Heck, I've personally contacted certain snowboard companies to terminate affiliate accounts for people who came on this forum and posted fake recommendations and links against FTC guidelines.

However, I also think it's important not to scare average posters who aren't part of any blog/website/company representative etc by bringing the FTC targeting talk when it's unnecessary in their situation and doesn't really apply to what they're doing.

So your points = good
'FTC may target you' = unnecessary

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I saw your gear buying guide with a ton of Burton/Special Blend products listed in it, some ThirtyTwo, Electric, Dakine, K2 and a few others. Have you ever received any benefit from those brands, or did you just randomly choose them because you like them? I'm not accusing, just asking. It's plausible that you just needed examples and grabbed your favorites. Genuinely curious.
I receive no benefit whatsoever. That would go against building trust with my readers.

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As an aside, and just my opinion, which you probably wont like...don't bother "reviewing" shit from your friend and former roommate. I'm sure you do think it's great. I think what my friends do is great too. If I don't think its great, I leave the bad parts out. It'd be a dick move for me to post a critical review of my friends product online, right? Everybody knows that no one will do that, so if they're considering a purchase, they want unbiased reviews. It doesn't matter how honest you are, you just can't objectively review that way. Of course you can do what you want, but just saying, this isn't useful. You're not doing readers a favor when you do that. You're doing your friend a favor. You can't serve both masters.
I don't agree here in this context. That review was made because frankly I get asked my thoughts on his trick tips constantly. It's natural since we're in the same space and I heavily cover freestyle tips and advice on my blog.

So that's why I did the review. He didn't even ask for the review (frankly he sells enough of his programs that he doesn't need my promotion). Before the review I actually purposely paid for a copy of his product myself and continue to pay the subscription fee even though I already had all his original trick tip videos on dvd and don't get any benefit from them at my level of riding.

It all comes down to trust that you build with your readers. I would be 100% open if I found something bad with my friends product and my readers know that, especially after all the money I've passed up to promote things or put ads on my website. If his product has flaws I'd say it, but the only real flaw I could find was the fact that his download method was a bit of a pain, which I did mention. Heck, if I were him I'd have charged double what he's charging for his videos.

Reading your previous post it seems your only real negative with his videos was the fact that he didn't go as in depth as possible. However to me I didn't view that as a negative because in-depth and long wasn't his target market. His tricks tips are purposely designed to be short and go over just the key points and with that goal in mind he's nailed it. The fact is there isn't another trick tip on the market that comes close to his and not answering readers who ask me to review his product would be a disservice when every other trick tip is so absurdly bad.

The thing is if I really wanted to profit I'd stop promoting his products, make a clone of them and sell my own trick tips. I'm actually losing potential future income by promoting his products to my readers. However, it all goes back to building trust. If I don't have a better solution for what my readers want then I'm going to recommend them the best solution even if it's not beneficial for me.
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Last edited by Jed; 05-27-2013 at 04:44 AM.
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:30 AM   #34 (permalink)
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Can you specify this pussy ass crybaby bitch tits motherfucker cum dumpster douche nozzle shit pickle please? I'm a little confused on who exactly this is.

Proceed I'm enjoying this read.
me to. I learn a lot of new words
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Old 05-27-2013, 07:39 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Just out of interest, how does this apply to Websites/Forums not hosted or owned in the USA but have the majority of it's use from the same...?

Is poses a different response i'm sure, but this is how the interweb works, and you know how easy it is to move a site thus creating a different problem...

Personally, i don't take much interest in reviews, rather go by shop board testers and there opinions on something i already have an interest in. Like the Ride DH2 i bought was a recommendation because i was interested in next years K2 Fastplant, and the Fastplant was a recommendation from a Jibpan i was previously riding.

So personally for me while i may watch or read some reviews, i already know that the opinion will nearly always be slightly biased, and the shop view, well, that may be biased to stock they hold, but not from a shop that would order in and make less money to keep a customer happy...
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Old 05-27-2013, 08:49 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by BurtonAvenger View Post
The more you pay to advertise in Transworld the more likely you are to win a Good Wood award. Happened to Smokin like 5 plus years ago when they were doing the white topsheet/black base combo. Jay had 3 boards win, when TWS asked him if he wanted to advertise and he said no, they didn't let him into Good Wood the next year. It's part of the reason Kisel left running it. He said something like "Why do I even bother they've already figured out who is going to win back in the office a few months ago."
I was talking to Jay on Thursday, he got some more platinum picks and was chuckling about not advertising with them and still getting them.... he still isn't going to pay them for advertising. That was in the same discussion as Burton kicking them out of a tour of their facilities this year.
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Old 05-27-2013, 09:12 AM   #37 (permalink)
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... Heck, I've personally contacted certain snowboard companies to terminate affiliate accounts for people who came on this forum and posted fake recommendations and links against FTC guidelines ...
Trying to understand here... are you saying that these people were affiliates of the companies they were shilling for but did not disclose it on this forum? And they included links to their blogs/websites when they posted here? Also, their websites did not disclose that they were affiliates of said Co.s?

On a related note... for the most part, the FTC guidelines may be the right or ethical thing to do. But, what is the jurisdiction of these rules? Are these rules generally accepted (and enforceable) at the international level? If not, why should people outside of the US care... other than wanting to do the "decent" thing ?
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Old 05-27-2013, 12:59 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Trying to understand here... are you saying that these people were affiliates of the companies they were shilling for but did not disclose it on this forum? And they included links to their blogs/websites when they posted here? Also, their websites did not disclose that they were affiliates of said Co.s?

On a related note... for the most part, the FTC guidelines may be the right or ethical thing to do. But, what is the jurisdiction of these rules? Are these rules generally accepted (and enforceable) at the international level? If not, why should people outside of the US care... other than wanting to do the "decent" thing ?
Typically the people I reported were resorting to things like spam tactics and posting sneaky affiliate links to snowboard products to get people to click on them and get commissions without the people knowing they were clicking affiliate links.

As far as how the FTC rules apply to those outside the US, yeah they can still come after you if you do business with anyone in the US. It's unlikely as they tend to target bigger fish, particular in regards to international action, but in general no one in the online marketing world wants to be targeted by the FTC regardless of whether they're actually US based because they can make life suck for your business.

Whether they can actually successfully enforce it 100% of the time is another matter, but they have gone after international companies in the past. They're not someone to play around with so every business tends to comply to all their rules to stay off their radar. Even if they can't get you, they can shut down simple things like your email list provider (which would likely be from a US based company) and that will destroy the profits of most businesses who utilize email marketing as part of their main marketing funnel.

They're a scary problem to have if you catch their eye, which is why I'm careful about applying the label of 'possible FTC action' to things that aren't really in any danger of that sort of extreme possibility. It can easily scare people away unnecessarily.
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:08 PM   #39 (permalink)
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Cool, thanks Jed.
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Old 05-27-2013, 04:44 PM   #40 (permalink)
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Let me put it this way. The next person who comes onto this forum and states what the rules are is going to be banned.

Only the Mod staff sets the rules here. If you have a problem with them come to us. No member sets the rules. You can go elsewhere. As far as your FTC quotes, you are in way out of your league. Nothing is going to happen, regardless of how you frame it.

Just test me on this one.

Do we have an understanding?
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