i picked up the OR alti mitts. If you can get over looking like your going to box some skiers, they definitely do the trick. I got these over the hestra helis because of the full goretex shell, not just a goretex liner inside the mitt. I have raynauds, so my hands lose their heat extremely rapidly. With the altis, I can play around with my phone, smoke and just not be nearly as nervous about a raynauds attack because these things are so damn warm. If you want ovens, drop a hand warmer in each but be should to use a good liner to wick the sweat away.