ShredLife

i was just going to say something like this.

any jacket with ANY type of liner at all is NOT a technical shell.

if you buy a goretex proshell jacket with a liner you are wasting your money.

you really shouldn't buy anything from a snowboard company if you want bomber gear - buy from mountaineering companies - Arc'teryx is pretty much the best. Patagonia, Mt. Hardwear, others like that are good.

just don't buy anything with a liner. they're fucking stupid, pointless, heavy, sweaty, and wet. snowboarding gear sucks shit - its all made for little kids whose parents are too stupid to not buy them new gear every season.

Volcom used to be cool when i still used to buy little kids shit, they have had every opportunity to step up to big boy shit, and they continue to churn out kiddie garbage. Fuck Volcom.

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DrnknZag

^^Yup, I completely agree. Looking at technical outerwear from snowboard companies, Burton's AK stuff is ok, but doesn't compare to the mountaineering companies. I have been impressed with Oakley's PRS kits for Seth Morrison & Jake Blauvelt. Probably the best tech outerwear outside of said mountaineering companies.

Lamps

If your budget will cover go with goretex proshell, best material out there.

After that it's who has the features you like.

I'd sacrifice a lot of things to get a pro shell jacket on sale, it's great stuff

Lamps

Music Moves

Being from the PNW, I'm surprised you two didn't chime in about Homeschool. Granted it hasn't become a proven brand in terms of longevity, but you can't argue with the tech.

ShredLife

Homeschool:

- cocona or whatever is NOT Gore-Tex. Nothing that is not named Gore-Tex is Gore-Tex. The closest thing to Gore-Tex that is not is probably Patagonia's H2NO, and even they are going to Gore on this year's high-end stuff.

- ugly as fuck... circa 1991 color schemes, knee patches in contrasting colors on pants, purple zippers on a blacked out jacket....

- serious lack of diversity thru the line. want an integrated hood or a stowable one? high collar or low? offset zipper? they only offer one model of high end jacket, Arc'teryx has about 20.

- fit and finish, experience, time in the game - I am an Arc'teryx fanboy. i've never seen any other company consistently make shit so well. seams are perfect - they've been using welded seams longer than just about anyone. if i destroy an Arc' piece they will replace it, it is all Gore so if it leaks it is guaranteed.

Arc' uses the lightest weight, strongest face fabrics around. i promise you anything from HS or Trew will be heavier weight, less breathable, and no more waterproof.

so those are some of my reasons. most of all it is my experience with snowboarding companies making shit that needs to be replaced each season, and hung up to dry at the end of the day. the stuff i've seen from HS and even Trew is too heavy weight, and WILL hold sweat moisture inside it, will get waterlogged sooner than light fabric.

in a suit of Arc' armor i am comfortable with the idea of digging a snowcave and spending the night in it and being dry. for what i do this is pretty valuable. the heavier weight face fabrics just don't do the same thing.

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ShredLife

not talking shit about these other companies like HS and Trew, or whoever else wants to at least look forward with outerwear design - these guys ARE on the right track.

i see these companies as kind of bridging the gap between resort riding and BC. i imagine lots of the kids that want to have something that will work as they start to get into the backcountry will get this kind of gear and be happy with it, because it IS better than anything with a liner... it just isn't as good as real mountaineering gear.

so if you just ride lifts, or are a grom who thinks they need to look "cool" (neon, patchwork, retarded) in the BC i think that stuff would work just fine - give em 5 years and if they strive to improve their product they could be great.

if you are about comfort and stability in real life or death survival situations, then get the shit that has been proven for 15+ years. you won't see any snowboards in their ads

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yimingration

Check out Trew Gear, all their jackets are 20k/20k. Full retail price are about 480, but backcountry has them for 220 right now.

Music Moves

Essentially, you wrote a book about the one statement I made in my post, "Granted it hasn't become a proven brand in terms of longevity," but I certainly understand your commitment to Arc and you definitely can't argue with GT performance as I've used it greatly.

I know people who have used the HS garments extensively in various conditions for almost 2 years and stand by them, saying they are just as breathable as any GT garments they've had and so far seem to be as durable (just need another year or two to really determine). Considering I lucked up with one of their highest-end (22,000/20,000) shells for $65 back in May, I'm definitely stoked to put it to the duration test.

Regarding them being on the right track, I agree, and will add that I'm not sure I would have given them a shot without the steal I managed to stumble upon. Imo though, they have very tame designs and color ways, so I'm not sure what you meant by the "look cool" statements. I'm also not a mountaineer, so I also enjoy that these cats ARE snowboarders trying to create a solid apparel company FOR snowboarders. Again, I'm fortunate to get this particular jacket for approximately 80% less than most would have to pay, but if we don't give POTENTIALLY great tech a shot, the Arc's of the industry that have no competition will always be able to charge significantly higher prices than necessary for quality goods.

I'll be in WA for a while in January. Maybe we can ride if you're around.

EDIT: I hadn't thought of HS's warranty info yet because, well, look what I paid for the jacket. Anyway, I checked and it appears that it is the same as Arc's, which is great. Of course, Arc's has been extensively used and proven over time. Never really know if how a company is going translate "defects in materials or workmanship."

ShredLife

The looks comment was more directed to Trew but HS pants look like they're from 1991.
If the fabric is listed as ??k/??mm then it is a dwr rating and it will not compare to gore-tex. I have seen hs and trew in person and they are both heavy compared to the bird.

That's all I got.
I am always down to shred.

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Music Moves

Yeah, definitely not a fan of the knee pads and def agree that Arc drops science in the feel and weight department. Also admittedly, the jacket is a bit stiffer than I like initially, but for $65, I'm stoked to beat it to death. I'll also have my other garments if I want .