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post #21 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 06:07 PM
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Fair enough... For what its worth I get patagonia pro forms and will pay retail for Arc' on occasion. The.Arc jacket I wear now I got for 280 ($475 msrp)at my home mt. (hood) in march right when they start to cut prices...
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post #22 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-25-2012, 09:39 PM
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I agree with shred, my go to companies are outdoor research, arc and marmot with mt hard wear and pat rounding it out. Take a look at mt hardwear snowpocalypse it is amazing and is a softshell. I have been using the new OR Axiom jacket for everything as of late it has gore-tex active for the shell, it is amazing how much it breathes in a down pour when hiking.
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post #23 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 08:59 AM
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I've got nothing against Trew and Homeschool, but I don't consider them "true" tech wear. No Goretex, no thanks. No laminate comes close to Goretex in terms of waterproofing, breathability, and weight.

I'm with Shred too on the style, neither brand is really my style at all.
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post #24 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 10:40 AM
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I've got nothing against Trew and Homeschool, but I don't consider them "true" tech wear. No Goretex, no thanks. No laminate comes close to Goretex in terms of waterproofing, breathability, and weight.

I'm with Shred too on the style, neither brand is really my style at all.
I am sorry, but that is complete bullshit. A number of other fabrics (eVent is probably the best known one, but there are others) have been generally outperforming Gore-Tex for years, most notably in terms of breathability. There is a pretty well-known study conducted by the US military a few years ago that found the same.

That said, rating fabric breathability is non-trivial - different fabrics perform differently in different conditions, not all of which are practical or realistic. For instance, a number of these membranes have their best breathability measures when completely soaked - not ideal for most applications...

Still, it is clear that there are a number of fabrics that at least rival, if not exceed, the performance of Gore-Tex (not surprising, considering that Gore-Tex was invented almost 40 years ago). Stating that "no laminate comes close to Goretex in terms of waterproofing, breathability, and weight" is demonstrably false.

This page provides a pretty good summary for some of the materials available in the market.
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post #25 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 10:54 AM
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Whoa, calm down there cowboy.

Yes, there are a few fabrics that in my book equal Goretex in terms of performance (yes, eVent is one of them). I was mainly speaking towards the common fabrics seen in outerware, specifically when talking about Trew and Homeschool. I guess my comment was a little misleading, but you get the picture. I hate going in a shop and having them tell me that 20k/20k is basically Goretex. THAT'S bullshit.
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post #26 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 10:58 AM
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That's a nice little summary, hktrdr, and I agree with much of what you've said. If reviews are any indication, Cocona Xcelerator will be added to that list at some point. It has been said that it is 50% more breathable than "the best available," which I'm assuming would be eVent. I'm stoked to give it a shot.

Oh, and here is a list from 2009 of companies that were already using Cocona, what Homeschool is using:

Eddie Bauer, New Balance, Adidas, Orvis, Marmot, Patagonia, Oakley, Izod, Rossignol, Cutter & Buck, Dockers, Sugoi, VauDe, Mammut, and Millet

Some heavy hitters there.. I wish I could find a more recent list.

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post #27 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 11:53 AM
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marmot, millet, mammut, and patagonia are the only two companies you listed that even matter in this discussion - and most of those guys are using GT for their top end stuff. the rest are not making the kind of clothes we give a fuck about for snowboarding


i would argue that breathability doesn't matter, because anything that breathes as well or better than GT is good enough. all my jackets will have pit zips, and they will all get used. the real key is waterproofness and how long it will stay waterproof (as in years)....

in MY experience GT is still the king, and on top of that Arc'teryx is the undisputed king of shells. its not just that they are using GT - it is that they are sourcing the best, lightest weight, strongest, most comfortable face fabrics to attach the GT laminate to. the fabric they use shits all over HS/Trew/Marmot/Patagonia. this makes a huge fucking difference.
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post #28 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 12:44 PM
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Haha, dude, I get it. You love gore. I too have a quite a bit of gore products by which I stand, but neither of us can honestly discuss how the new tech performs at length, as we have no real experience with it. I'm simply excited to try something new. I am on all accounts a gore fan... really just a fan of progression in gear and apparel in general and I haven't encountered anyone or anything dismissing the performance of this tech. And if, imo, it sucks, you guys will read about it.
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post #29 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-26-2012, 12:59 PM
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honestly i just need shit to work so i don't have to think about comfort when i'm out there. i have had better luck with Patagonia's h2no than GT in waders, and i spend alot of time standing in the water - so that is what i wear.

i am a whore for Arc'teryx shells - i have tried most of the rest at some point or another and for me the bird is it. i feel as lightweight as a ninja but as armored as something out of Halo or some shit. i've had a pair of their pants last me over 300 days in the mountains, probably about the same for the jackets.

when it comes to other stuff like fleeces and gloves and underwear and other shit i get Patagonia or Marmot or Smartwool or whatever works best for me - and for me, for shells - i'm going Arc'teryx. When they start using cocona or eVent or unicorn farts in their jackets, I'll will use it because i believe that their standard for outerwear is pretty much as high as it gets. oh yes - i have drank the kool-aid
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post #30 of 102 (permalink) Old 07-28-2012, 01:43 AM
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i am a whore for Arc'teryx shells - i have tried most of the rest at some point or another and for me the bird is it. i feel as lightweight as a ninja but as armored as something out of Halo or some shit. i've had a pair of their pants last me over 300 days in the mountains, probably about the same for the jackets.
I'm looking at getting either the Stingray or the Sabre SV. Have you tried either of these? Are the pants that unbelievable that would warrant shelling out over $300 a pair?
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