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post #21 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-01-2009, 12:31 PM
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event is only different from goretex in that they don't coat the inside of the goretex with a oil repellent layer. the waterproof breathable ePTFE layer can be clogged by dirt and oils, so gore protects that layer with another layer, which hampers its breathabillity a little bit. event gets around this by making the ePTFE layer itself oleophobic. how that is done is a trade secret. this essentially removes one layer that affects the breathabillity.

from an industry site

A few years ago, the U.S. Army’s Soldier System Center in Natick, Mass., performed breathability tests on some common outdoor fabrics. Leading the pack of tested materials was the eVent laminate which, depending on relative humidity, was between 1.3 and 3 times more breathable than the next best material, Gore-Tex XCR. Following this, the results clustered together, with the best-performing materials approximately twice as breathable as the least. In descending order of breathability, the results were: Gore-Tex XCR, Gore-Tex (standard), HydroSeal (The North Face), Membrain (Marmot), Sympatex, Conduit (Mountain Hardwear), and OmniTech (Columbia).
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post #22 of 59 (permalink) Old 12-02-2009, 09:16 PM
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what about psi waterproof ratings??

i found these north face pants that have a 25 psi rating in materproofing and a 625-675g breathability rating.
The North Face Monte Cargo Print Pant - Men's from Backcountry.com
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post #23 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-14-2010, 06:56 PM
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I was told that if you use a ph neutral detergent when washing the jacket it will aid in not removing the weatherproofing additive as quickly as something like Tide.Learn more about buying a snowboarding jacket
post #24 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-14-2010, 08:58 PM
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Psi

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Originally Posted by crazyface View Post
what about psi waterproof ratings??

i found these north face pants that have a 25 psi rating in materproofing and a 625-675g breathability rating.
The North Face Monte Cargo Print Pant - Men's from Backcountry.com
Not sure if it is still useful info for you or not since you have probably long since purchased a pair of new pants Figured I'd give a quicky answer though just to clarify and keep this thread up to speed.

PSI stands for Pounds per Square Inch just like it did in your high school physics class...basically it is an indication of how much pressure the garment can withstand before water seeps in...in this case the garment can withstand 25 pounds of pressure per inch of fabric before moisture seeps in. The average guy exerts about 16 pounds of pressure per square inch kneeling on the ground. The fabric is tested in what is refered to as the Mullen's Test and is one of the industry standards but is slightly different than the Water Column Test in which a tube of water, 1 inch in diameter is filled with water to test how many millimeters of water the fabric can withstand before leaking over a 24 hour period of time. Water Column Test values are shown in millimeters (mm).

To compare mm rated fabrics to PSI rated fabrics keep in mind that 576.834 mm = 1 PSI so a 25 PSI rated fabric is approximately equivalent to a 15,000 mm jacket (give or take 570.15 mm)

Hope this helps!

Kjerstin Klein from

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post #25 of 59 (permalink) Old 01-14-2010, 09:48 PM
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Performance Fabric Wash

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I was told that if you use a ph neutral detergent when washing the jacket it will aid in not removing the weatherproofing additive as quickly as something like Tide.Learn more about buying a snowboarding jacket
The important thing to keep in mind is that proper washing of performance fabrics will improve rather than damage performance. Proper washing clears the pores to improve breathability, re-lofts insulations and helps DWR coatings to rise back to the surface.

By 'Proper' washing I mean using gentle cleaners that do not strip weather protective coatings, damage hollow-core fabrics or clogg microporous laminate layers - so NOT Tide...or any other comercial laundry detergents. I could say plenty about these products but since we are talking about performance fabrics I'll keep my rant on that topic alone

PH balance is only one componenet of performance fabric wash - the gentle cleaners used break down sweat and body oils that block pores without leaving deposits comercial cleaners leave behind - not to gross you out but your typical commercial cleaners leave so much junk behind that after 10 washings deposits account for nearly 2% of the fabrics weight (see the Clemson University Rinseabilty Test). Many of these specialty performance fabric washes retreat garments with 'wash-in' DWR coatings to help sustain the factory DWR finish to improve longevity.

Don't worry, if you have used commercial detergents or soaps on your garments most quality goods can be restored to their former glory by using a sport specific wash a couple of times to remove the deposits left behind. There are many on the market but I suggest Axis G-Wash.

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post #26 of 59 (permalink) Old 02-12-2010, 12:44 AM
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Great info, Thanks! Still researching on jackets, though.
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post #27 of 59 (permalink) Old 02-12-2010, 05:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kjerstin Klein View Post
The important thing to keep in mind is that proper washing of performance fabrics will improve rather than damage performance. Proper washing clears the pores to improve breathability, re-lofts insulations and helps DWR coatings to rise back to the surface.

By 'Proper' washing I mean using gentle cleaners that do not strip weather protective coatings, damage hollow-core fabrics or clogg microporous laminate layers - so NOT Tide...or any other comercial laundry detergents. I could say plenty about these products but since we are talking about performance fabrics I'll keep my rant on that topic alone

PH balance is only one componenet of performance fabric wash - the gentle cleaners used break down sweat and body oils that block pores without leaving deposits comercial cleaners leave behind - not to gross you out but your typical commercial cleaners leave so much junk behind that after 10 washings deposits account for nearly 2% of the fabrics weight (see the Clemson University Rinseabilty Test). Many of these specialty performance fabric washes retreat garments with 'wash-in' DWR coatings to help sustain the factory DWR finish to improve longevity.

Don't worry, if you have used commercial detergents or soaps on your garments most quality goods can be restored to their former glory by using a sport specific wash a couple of times to remove the deposits left behind. There are many on the market but I suggest Axis G-Wash.
The only issue with washing tech outerwear, with a tech wash/wash-in reproofer, is that it may affect the breathability, of said membrane. The best thing to do is read instructions, use a tech wash (without reproofer), & once washed, use a spray on DWR coating, & use per directions (Granger XT, NikWax, Stormguard).
As for the waterproof, make sure you get the correct rating for the conditions. We have wet snow, in the Nth Island, & dryer snow, in the Sth Island, & considering most of the outerwear is designed for dryer, northern hemispere conditions, we have to be careful at what rating we get, & what kind of outer fabric is used, & this is what a lot of ppl don't quite get, or don't get told, by the person selling them the product - the outer fabric is as important, as the tech membrane (pending if it's a laminate, or not). Example; you could have a 10,000mm/10,000gm/24 outerwear, with a nylon outer fabric, & a 5000mm/5000gm/24hr outerwear, with a twill or herringbone fabric. What this may mean is that the outerwear that is a twill fabric, & lesser ratings, wont "wet out" as fast as the nylon fabric, with the higher rating. Wet out is a term to discribe a saturation point of the fabric, when it stops repelling water, & breathing. This can be caused by heaving or driving snow or rain, over a certain time frame...

Something else to consider...

Now, as another example, Helly Hanson have in their wash instructions (Helly Tech, XP, & O2), a statement that tells you that the waterproof rating will half, with x amount of standard washes, without re waterproofing, so again, always check manufacturers instructions

Last edited by Shred35; 02-12-2010 at 05:39 AM. Reason: adding info
post #28 of 59 (permalink) Old 07-14-2010, 11:32 AM
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Here's a really good article on outerwear technology.

Outerwear Tech | Boardworld


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post #29 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 03:03 PM
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But breathability goes with temperature right? Last season I rode in temperatures around -10'C/15'F so I am hoping I will be OK with 5000 - 8000 breathability. Can't remember sweating much at the time.
post #30 of 59 (permalink) Old 08-19-2010, 04:32 PM
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Hi everyone, this is my first time buying snowboarding gear. I need a jack and pants. I was told that shell is a good material but most of the sites that i go on have limited shell selection. Can someone please explain to me the difference between shell and dura shell. I was thinking of buying the Nomis Simon Chamberlain Shell Snowboard Pants Black. Right now they go for $190, 20,000mm/20,000m/24hrs Laminated Fabrics with Teflon DWR. Thanks!
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