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m60g · 07-06-2009, 10:38 PM

I don't think your stupid, far from it.

You remind me of my best friend, he and I have these kind of discussions. We're like oil and water

He's a crazy Leftist Liberal and I'm a crazy Right Wing Conservative

snaplok · 07-06-2009, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m60g

QUOTE:

"I am really sick and tired of their behavior and I am growing weary of the rich, influential Jews in this country pulling the puppet strings of our government."

Yeah, that's why your douchebag Obama is in office, cause the EVIL JEWS put him there

Have you ever been to Israel? If not, then you really have no idea what your talking about. You just see what ever the media wants you to see and hear.

I have been there, I trained with the IDF while in the Army. The reason they are so paranoid and that they do what ever they need to do, whether the rest of the world approves or not is because they are surrounded by people who want them DEAD.

They have NOOO Allies in that region. They must always be aggressive. They must always keep their boots on their enemies necks. I for one love the IDF, I hope they keep kicking those fuckers teeth in for another 1000 years.

It's not about the Palastine State. Even if the Palastinians got what they wanted, Israel would still be in danger. All those countries over there want the Jews Dead. Bottom Line. They have hated each other for 6000 years and I imagine they will go on hating each other.

But, then again, I'm not the best spokesperson for the Arabs. I tend to dislike all things Islam.

The IDF is alright anyway, they like kittins:

...but not Arabs

...one of my favorites:

I actually have been to Israel and find most of them to be obnoxious and arrogant, but that's just me. They act like they really can do anything they want. But what surpises me about your post is that you back the same people that cause the US to be hated so the you have to fight, so that the US is hated more....

Btw isn't Obama your douchbag in command? If you want to serve your country then you have to take the good with the bad and like those religious asses who believe in heaven but not hell, the US( like Snowolf pointed out) backs this bullshit. It is easier for Israel to wage war because WE make it so.

Jewish persecution has been around since biblical times, nothing new there. But like slavery, don't you think it's time that they stop using that as an excuse to be a dick of a country? I have heard from the lips of Isreali people " we were persecuted and killed for our beliefs, so we must defend ourselves." Now it looks like they are the aggressors. They have no allies because they want to rule the entire region and take over because they feel entitled. For what reason? Persecution.

Speaking of that, you ever see the conditions in Palestine that the Israelis enforce there? If not, then you really don't know what you're talking about.

**Snowolf** · 07-07-2009, 05:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SpringheelJack

You're using the reports from Free Gaza?

Was Stormfront's report not up in time?

The report from Free Gaza was used because it was their project and vessel that is involved....

I am not referencing them as a news source about the Israeli/ Palestinian issue. I would not trust their objectivity any more than a source from the IDF. Since it was their project and vessel, they were the first to report on this situation; The American networks can`t be bothered to cover this due to the 24/7 Michale Jackson coverage.....

**Snowolf** · 07-07-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlaze

>entire post<

Interesting background and historical information; thanks for adding that to the conversation..

With regard to Iran, that is partly true, but as the one article points out, much has to do with the difference between being simply a Jew and being a Zionist. The Zionist is the militant, belligerent one who uses Jewish "victim hood" from the holocaust as a cart blanch license to do what the the Zionist government of Israel is doing.

As for the "who owned the land originally" argument, it was not the Arab Palestinians who persecuted the Jews on antiquity, it was, as you point out, the Romans. I just don`t think it is really justifiable for the Zionists to kick the Palestinians of today in the teeth because of what the Romans did.

If we go down that road, look at what the Native Americans might have a right to do to us white folks for what our forefathers did to them. What they did to the native American was reprehensible, but it is nothing compared to what the Zionists are doing to the Palestinians. At least we have made some honest advances in redressing our wrongs and while putting these people on reservations was wrong, at least we did`nt load them on boats and ship them out of the country.

Israel needs to get over wrongs that were done that far back and certainly not take it out those who had nothing to do with it. Obviously a two state solution is the only viable option, but Israel needs to meet the Palestinians half way.

The U.S. has really screwed things up thanks to the Bush administration who engineered the democratic elections in hopes that all Palestinians would rush to support Fatah who we backed. Instead, they overwhelmingly supported Hamas. Instead of honoring their democratic elections and working with Hamas as the legitimate government of the Palestinians, we and the neocons in Israel, refused to work with them and placed sanctions and embargoes which only hurt the innocent people and we have made the suffering these refugee camps even more inhumane.

Then, when human rights groups try to send aid and comfort to the innocent people, the IDF terrorists practice Piracy at sea and we condone it. All of this is why we create generations of future anti American terrorists daily. Once again, neocons in the form of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Rice etc who hijacked the Republican party, again tried to interfere and manipulate the affairs of another Middle Eastern region in an attempt to further an agenda and it bit them in the ass. Those people only like democracy when democracy votes their way. When Hamas won, they threw a temper tantrum like a two year old and millions of people suffer as a result.

Quote:

An inside story of how the US magnified Palestinian suffering

The covert push to empower Fatah failed. And isolating Hamas just made things worse. But it's not too late to change course.
By Norman H. Olsen and Matthew N. Olsen
from the January 12, 2009 edition

A million and a half Palestinians are learning the hard way that democracy isn't so good if you vote the wrong way. In 2006, they elected Hamas when the US and Israel wanted them to support the more-moderate Fatah. As a result, having long ago lost their homes and property, Gazans have endured three years of embargo, crippling shortages of food and basic necessities, and total economic collapse.

We spoke again Saturday with three of our longtime Gazan contacts. They and their families, all Fatah supporters, were in their eleventh day without electricity, running water, or heat. They are cowering in cold basements trying to protect their children from the storm of explosions that is filling Shifa hospital with amputees and the dead. Our friends in Israel are likewise living in fear.

The 850-plus dead Gazans, more than a dozen dead Israelis, and some 3,000 injured have since the end of the cease-fire become part of what Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice once called the birth pains of a new Middle East.

It didn't have to be this way. We could have talked instead of fought.

Hamas never called for the elections that put them in power. That was the brainstorm of Secretary Rice and her staff, who had apparently decided they could steer Palestinians into supporting the more-compliant Mahmoud Abbas (the current president of the Palestinian authority) and his Fatah Party through a marketing campaign that was to counter Hamas's growing popularity – all while ignoring continued Israeli settlement construction, land confiscation, and cantonization of the West Bank.

Source

As I said in an earlier post, I totally support Israel`s right to exist and defend herself, but show me where hijacking a vessel in international waters on a humanitarian mission is "defending herself" I can see a boarding and inspection, but kidnapping and holding these people is an act of terrorism. If North Korea had done this, we would be ready to go to war with them.

This is not the first time Israel has done something like this either. On June 8`th 1967 at the start of the Six Day War, Israels overzealous and beligerent, war mongering attitude led to the attack on the U.S. Navy Vessel, the U.S. S. Liberty. That attack killed 34 and wounded 171 American servicemen. The attack was covered up because of the political clout that AIpec and the Jewish lobby has over our government.

Quote:

The descriptor, "false flag", is derived from an old pirate's trick: flying another country's flag during a raid. This would shift the blame for the attack to someone who had nothing to do with it. Governments have used false flag attacks to manipulate their people into fear and hate that can lead to a dictatorship or war.

On June 8, 1967, using unmarked aircraft and attack boats, Israel attacked our proud naval ship -- the USS Liberty -- killing 34 American servicemen and wounding 172. Those men were then betrayed and left to die by our own government. Israel thought that Egypt would be blamed for their attack

Israel officially states the attack on the USS Liberty was accidental. What was Israel's motive for this act? The scheduling of the Israeli assault on the Golan Heights for 8 June was a move to defeat an intense effort in the United Nations to halt the war, a ceasefire having been scheduled for 9 June. Such pressure was also being applied by the U.S. Government. The IDF leaders were under pressure to acquire the Golan before the ceasefire was imposed, preferably without being labeled the aggressor (as in 1956 when Israel had colluded with Britain and France to attack Egypt). But with all the pressure to attack Syria, and after all the hurried preparations to do so, the Golan attack was suddenly called off within hours of its scheduled commencement. Why? Obviously, someone in the IDF leadership feared the Liberty might intercept some of the many signals then filling the air that would expose Israel's preparations for invasion. They might then be forced into a ceasefire before they conquered the coveted territory.

As James Bamford says, based on what Israeli military sources indicate, the Israelis killed hundreds of Egyptian POWs, most of them with their hands tied behind their backs. The attack on USS Liberty survivors in life rafts was necessary to coverup the warcrimes of the Israeli Defense Force.

False Flag Operation USS Liberty

USS Liberty Attack

Sorry, but I don`t see Israel as our friend.

We see this behavior from the IDF time and again. Most recently it was painfully obvious in their attacks of Lebanon and their total disregard for Innocent civilian casualties. We see it constantly in Gaza and the Wast Bank.

Basically, what I see is wrongs being done on both sides to be sure, but Israel actively agitates situations around them and then when they pick at something long enough to evoke a response they cry "victim" and play the "who us?" role. This is what I am sick of and this is what needs to change.

Currently, another aid convoy is on it`s way to attempt to bring medicine and other humanitarian supplies to the Innocent Palestinian people in Gaza. Let`s see if the the IDF act like a civilized military force or once again behave like terrorists....

Quote:

Fresh from the success of the Viva Palestina: Lifeline from Britain to Gaza aid convoy - which took over 100 vehicles to Gaza from the UK, Member of Parliament, George Galloway has linked up on his US tour with the Vietnam veteran and peace campaigner, Ron Kovic, to launch a similar, but even larger venture from the States.

Viva Palestina USA is headquartered in Chicago, Illinois, but individuals and groups from across the nation are organizing locally to generate support for the convoy, which aims to raise $10 million for humanitarian aid and 500 vehicles with which to deliver the aid into Gaza.

“And what better day to head off,” says Galloway, “Than July 4 - Independence Day!”
Viva Palestina US

Viva Palestina - a lifeline from Britain to Gaza

**Snowolf** · 07-07-2009, 07:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m60g

I don't think your stupid, far from it.

You remind me of my best friend, he and I have these kind of discussions. We're like oil and water

He's a crazy Leftist Liberal and I'm a crazy Right Wing Conservative

fair enough....you forgot to mention a "gun toting" crazy leftist liberal....

snaplok · 07-07-2009, 07:15 AM

I'm pretty sure that until Israel faces reprimand for their acts, any aid convoy to the Palenstines will be meet with military force and siezed.

Vlaze · 07-07-2009, 07:54 AM

While I don't have the time atm to draw out the dates, during the Arab-Israel war originally territory was proposed and discussed to be separated for both parties. While Israel was content with what they had, the Arabs were not and initiated that war.

I'm not saying Israel is the victim in all cases, but over it's existence of time as a state I see far more agitation against them initiated than the other way around overall. The whole Gaza thing is Hama's initiating and tactics to try to shift the blame regardless of innocence. In war, there is no way to avoid innocents being caught up in crossfires; no that doesn't justify it happening, but it's reality.

They're not the ones overtime who are trying or claim to wipe Palestinians off the map whereas Iran, Hamas, and every other terrorist organization around that area has attempted to do since their formation of a state. Again this doesn't justify what I don't agree with in a lot of their actions, but overall I'm seeing more aggravation against them than started by them. Does this make it right? That's an opinionated conclusion. No country is perfect and has done their share of bad moves and tactics.

While the Romans were the ones who initially used the Palestinian name hood to get rid of Israel's existence, you have to admit that almost 2 centuries later it's worked decently with Arabs using the name in majority along with their conquering during 700AD to implant themselves in that area of land and reflected upon this day and time using it to give the misconception it is and was their land.

Everyone has a right to exist and live in a given area. But again they (Palestinians, who are Arabs in majority) don't want to admit to existence of Israel which is why from the state's formation they have been using the terror tactics over time showing their refusal to give land to them and wanting to call it a "Palestinian State" where Jews or rather Israelites can exist with them. It's the name that shows the existence that they want removed more so than the fact of living side by side with them. In this aspect what the Romans started is still affecting them up to this day.

Again this is all a historical count; with the topic at hand while they have a right to be paranoid with all the smuggling and terror tactics they've put up with for decades, this recent action was not a bright one. And I don't agree with their construction choices of removing the housings Palestinians live in either.

**Snowolf** · 07-07-2009, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by snaplok

I'm pretty sure that until Israel faces reprimand for their acts, any aid convoy to the Palenstines will be meet with military force and siezed.

And so it goes on......

Maybe it`s time that the IDF and the Zionists review their own history lest they continue down the the road they are and become that which was done to them.

**Snowolf** · 07-07-2009, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vlaze

While I don't have the time atm to draw out the dates, during the Arab-Israel war originally territory was proposed and discussed to be separated for both parties. While Israel was content with what they had, the Arabs were not and initiated that war.

I'm not saying Israel is the victim in all cases, but over it's existence of time as a state I see far more agitation against them initiated than the other way around overall. The whole Gaza thing is Hama's initiating and tactics to try to shift the blame regardless of innocence. In war, there is no way to avoid innocents being caught up in crossfires; no that doesn't justify it happening, but it's reality.

They're not the ones overtime who are trying or claim to wipe Palestinians off the map whereas Iran, Hamas, and every other terrorist organization around that area has attempted to do since their formation of a state. Again this doesn't justify what I don't agree with in a lot of their actions, but overall I'm seeing more aggravation against them than started by them. Does this make it right? That's an opinionated conclusion. No country is perfect and has done their share of bad moves and tactics.

While the Romans were the ones who initially used the Palestinian name hood to get rid of Israel's existence, you have to admit that almost 2 centuries later it's worked decently with Arabs using the name in majority along with their conquering during 700AD to implant themselves in that area of land and reflected upon this day and time using it to give the misconception it is and was their land.

Everyone has a right to exist and live in a given area. But again they (Palestinians, who are Arabs in majority) don't want to admit to existence of Israel which is why from the state's formation they have been using the terror tactics over time showing their refusal to give land to them and wanting to call it a "Palestinian State" where Jews or rather Israelites can exist with them. It's the name that shows the existence that they want removed more so than the fact of living side by side with them. In this aspect what the Romans started is still affecting them up to this day.

Again this is all a historical count; with the topic at hand while they have a right to be paranoid with all the smuggling and terror tactics they've put up with for decades, this recent action was not a bright one. And I don't agree with their construction choices of removing the housings Palestinians live in either.

I can agree with a lot of what you say and a lot I disagree with. I just don`t see it quite the same in that I see Israel going way over the top with very little regard for the suffering their actions cause to the people in Gaza and elsewhere. Just as I was and am critical of our callousness in many operations in Iraq, I see them as trying to argue that two wrongs somehow make a right. I see them as being agitators far more than the Palestinians.

Hamas is not ideal to be sure, but they are the government that the people elected and we and Israel should work with them not just ignore and marginalize them. Violence always creates more violence whereas engagement diplomatically always slows violence. I just don`t see Israel and our former administration trying to work with the situation at hand. Instead they made it worse by their sanctions which actually served as a recruiting tool for Hamas in anti Israeli and American terror attacks.

Mooz · 07-07-2009, 10:26 AM

Turns out that fat lying bitch wasn't in international waters at all.

linky

This is the second time she's tried to break through that blockade. The first time they just turned her around. This time they took her into custody. They would have released her right away had she just signed the order allowing her deportation.

This is why I hate that cunt. She doesn't give a shit about delivering aid to the palestinians. She's using their plight as a way to get her name in the paper. She'll make shit up and be a drama queen to get more attention but if she REALLY gave a damn, she'd load that stuff on a truck and drive it over or hell, carry it. Bitch could use some damn exercise anyway.

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