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**Snowolf** · 10-15-2009, 08:26 AM

I just watched this movie tonight and it was excellent. I posted this over on the Aviation Forum and am sharing it here. Anyone who has at least some misgivings about what Capitalism is doing to destroy this country will really want to go see this movie!

I know many hate Michale Moore and will not watch anything he produces no matter how well documented his facts are or how on target his films may be. Those people need to just go ahead and go back to watching Glenn Beck on Fox. For the rest of us who are willing to hear his point of view and understand what his work is about, this film is on par with Sicko and it very well documents how our country has gone from a democracy to a full blown Plutocracy where the top 1% of all wealth control every aspect of our government and have embedded themselves within it.

He documents in easy to understand layman`s terms the progression since Reagan that has got us into this mess. He goes into how deregulation of the banking industry created this mess and how we as the American taxpayer are forced to bail out the very corrupt players who got us into the mess and are doing it over already.

He interviews common, hard working middle class Americans who have had their homes foreclosed upon because they have lost their jobs and can`t find new ones. Some of the situations like kids being sent to prison labor camps because local judges are part owners in private prisons for the slightest offenses.

CNN: Jailed kids For Cash Scandal

Some of the things going on in America for the benefit of CEO`s at Goldman Sachs and AIG are sickening. This runaway predatory Laze Fare Capitalism must be utterly destroyed before it destroys what is left of this Republic. It is time to see it for the enemy of Democracy that it is. When I see the things going on in this country to my fellow Americans in the name of corporate greed and profit, it makes me even more proud to be a Socialist.

As a side note, Mr. Moore spent a large section of the movie illuminating the economic hardships that America`s pilots go through and whether you like him or not, Mr. Moore is a friend to aviation and America`s pilots...

Capitalism: A Love Story

Capitalism: A Love Story | Film review | Film | The Guardian

Quote:

Pilots on Food Stampsl

We're on the descent from 20,000 feet in the air when the flight attendant leans over the elderly woman next to me and taps me on the shoulder.

"I'm listening to Lady Gaga," I say as I remove just one of the ear buds. I know not this Lady Gaga, but her performance last week on SNL was fascinating.

"The pilots would like to see you in the cockpit when we land," she says with a southern drawl.

"Did I do something wrong?"

"No. They have something to show you." (The last time an employee of an airline wanted to show me something it was her written reprimand for eating an in-flight meal without paying for it. "Yes," she said, "we have to pay for our own meals on board now.")

The plane landed and I stepped into the cockpit. "Read this," the first officer said. He handed me a letter from the airline to him. It was headlined "LETTER OF CONCERN." It seems this poor fellow had taken three sick days in the past year. The letter was a warning not to take another one -- or else.

"Great," I said. "Just what I want -- you coming to work sick, flying me up in the air and asking to borrow the barf bag from my seatback pocket."

He then showed me his pay stub. He took home $405 this week. My life was completely and totally in his hands for the past hour and he's paid less than the kid who delivers my pizza.

I told the guys that I have a whole section in my new movie about how pilots are treated (using pilots as only one example of how people's wages have been slashed and the middle class decimated). In the movie I interview a pilot for a major airline who made $17,000 last year. For four months he was eligible -- and received -- food stamps. Another pilot in the film has a second job as a dog walker.

"I have a second job!" the two pilots said in unison. One is a substitute teacher. The other works in a coffee shop. You know, maybe it's just me, but the two occupations whose workers shouldn't be humpin' a second job are brain surgeons and airline pilots. Call me crazy.

Pilots on Food Stamps

As pilots, if baffles me how many of my fellow aviators are so right wing and vote against their own best interests. I can understand the Airline CEO being a Republican, but anyone who is a wage laborer like a pilot has no business being a Republican in my opinion.

Facts of Capitalism

The Dangerous View Ahead

Quote:

"I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around the banks will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs."

Thomas Jefferson, 3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)

Solidarity

Quote:

"If by a Liberal they mean someone who looks ahead and not behind, someone who welcomes new ideas without rigid reactions, someone who cares about the welfare of the people -- their health, their housing, their schools, their jobs, their civil rights, and their civil liberties -- someone who believes we can break through the stalemate and suspicions that grip us in our policies abroad, if that is what they mean by a Liberal, then I'm proud to say I'm a Liberal."

President John F. Kennedy

**Snowolf** · 10-16-2009, 04:24 AM

Yes, as an aviator and a passenger, it is despicable what the Airlines do in the name of Capitalism.

Quote:

I told them about how Capt. "Sully" Sullenberger (the pilot who safely landed the jet in the Hudson River) had testified in Congress that no pilot he knows wants any of their children to become a pilot. Pilots, he said, are completely demoralized. He spoke of how his pay has been cut 40% and his own pension eliminated. Most of the TV news didn't cover his remarks and the congressmen quickly forgot them. They just wanted him to play the role of "HERO," but he was on a more important mission. He's in my movie.

Quote:

Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger To Congress: My Pay Has Been Cut 40 Percent In Recent Years, Pension Terminated

The air traffic controller who handled Flight 1549 thought ditching in the Hudson River amounted to a death sentence for all aboard. Now the veteran pilot who pulled off the ditching safely says harsh pay cuts are driving experienced pilots from the cockpit.

"People don't survive landings on the Hudson River," 10-year veteran controller Patrick Harten told a House subcommittee Tuesday in his first public description of how he tried to land the jetliner that lost power in both jets when it hit Canada geese after takeoff from New York's LaGuardia Airport.

US Airways flight 1549 Capt. Chesley B Sullenberger III, seated, center, and First Officer Jeffrey B. Skiles, seated, right, receive a standing ovation on Capitol Hill in Washington, Tuesday, Feb. 24, 2009, as they prepared to testify before the House Transportation and Infrastructure Committee.
next

"I thought it was his own death sentence," Harten said of the moment when US Airways pilot Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger radioed that he was going into the river. Defying the odds, Sullenberger safely glided the Airbus A320 down and all 155 people aboard survived the Jan. 15 water landing.

Sullenberger, a 58-year-old who joined a US Airways predecessor in 1980, told the House aviation subcommittee that his pay has been cut 40 percent in recent years and his pension has been terminated and replaced with a promise "worth pennies on the dollar" from the federally created Pension Benefit Guaranty Corp. These cuts followed a wave of airline bankruptcies after the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks compounded by the current recession, he said.

"The bankruptcies were used by some as a fishing expedition to get what they could not get in normal times," Sullenberger said of the airlines. He said the problems began with the deregulation of the industry in the 1970s.

The reduced compensation has placed "pilots and their families in an untenable financial situation," Sullenberger said. "I do not know a single professional airline pilot who wants his or her children to follow in their footsteps."

Chesley "Sully" Sullenberger To Congress: My Pay Has Been Cut 40 Percent In Recent Years, Pension Terminated

Quote:

As many of you know, I am a pilot. As a pilot, I tend to read and watch a variety of aviation related materials. One such program that I really enjoy is National Geographic`s Air Crash Investigation" In aviation, as well as in any industry, we all see patterns of behavior that compromise safety for the sake of profit. This is one of the many problems I have with so called Free Market Capitalism. It literally puts the fox in charge of guarding the hen house.

No, I am not calling for total Marxist Communism and a complete end to the free market. I am pointing out that too much of a "good thing" (as some see Capitalism) is bad. We as a society need an entity to enforce regulations that protect us from the short sightedness of those who`s only concern is profit at all costs. Our Representative from of Democratic government is that best entity to carry out our wishes in spite of what the Libertarians and right wing Republicans think. I keep coming back to a more Socialistic attitude when it comes to putting people ahead of individual profit.

Seldom has there been so glaring an example of this than in this video of the horrific air crash in France in 1974 caused by the design flaw in the then new DC-10 aircraft. What is criminal in this case is that a near crash over Windsor, Ontario 2 years earlier from the same problem, illuminated the need for a design change. Because the business interests of the CEO`s of McDonnell Douglas basically bought favors from the FAA, the recommendations of the NTSB were ignored. The end result was the worst aviation accident in world history killing over 300 people aboard Flight 981. An accident that was 100% avoidable....

All for the sake of making a profit........

Behind Closed Doors PT. 1

Behind Closed Doors PT. 2

Behind Closed Doors PT. 3

Behind Closed Doors PT. 4

Behind Closed Doors PT. 5

So, the next time you board a commercial aircraft, think about the fact that without government regulation, you would be far less safe if you relied upon the good will of some seven figured CEO to "do the right thing" when it comes to your safety.

snowjeeper · 10-16-2009, 02:58 PM

You're never going to change republiclone's minds wolf, they don't use facts and logic to base their opinions on.

Frank101 · 10-16-2009, 07:07 PM

Not a fan of Moore, to be fair I haven't seen this movie yet (I will eventually) and have only seen Sicko from him. Unfortunately he is as biased as anyone. He may try to show ''Just the facts" which to his credit there is some truth behind his statements but after that he goes on extreme tangents.

I've seen him in a few interviews about him promoting his movie but really he is deception. We have never had true capitalism (like the world has never seen true communism, socialism, etc.) As with any ideology it looks good on paper but never works out when put into implementation as a result of the human factor screwing it up somehow for personal gain or interest.

The bailouts of the wealthy companies is not capitalism by any means and is the result of cooperate interests of Washington and the bankers on the top of the pyramid of society. I'll agree with some of his points of view but take the majority of his reasoning with a grain of salt.

m60g · 10-16-2009, 10:40 PM

You guys kill me with your rants against Capitalism and Republicans

How many Gazillionaire Socialist and Democrats are there?

Plenty I bet. They didn't get that way by not being capitalist

You think your big shot Democrats are gonna give all their money to us poor folk?

Yeah, I'm sure your Kennedy's, Schumer's, Pelosi's, Clinton's, and the rest of congress, are just going to stop making wealth, and divy it out to the commoner's

Even our President is a Capitalist, he has millions.

They are FUCKING CAPITALIST PIGS TOO!

Both sides are fucked and there ain't no way to fix it, short of "THE RESET BUTTON", and nobody has got the stones for that yet.

Your fucking side is as crazy as mine, I hate them both. I'm Fed up from floor up.
I'll be honest with you, I haven't got a clue as to what the fuck to do about any of it.
I can't stand to watch the news anymore, because I get so FUCKING MAD, I think I'm I'm about to have a stroke.

We are just being dragged down a giant shitter by all parties involved, I really HAVE NO HOPE FOR MY FUTURE. I am scared to death to see what is coming down the pipe in the next 20 to 30 years.

I see us spiraling down into some Police State, where all hope is lost.

I'm telling you man, I have a bleak outlook for the future, and Politicians from either side ain't gonna fix it. At least not the Turds we have now.

And I mean Republicans and Democrats. I guess I don't have a party anymore because mine fucked me, and the other are also a bunch of crazy shithouse rats.

So what do you do? Ride the fucking dragon I guess

I guess I'll keep buying Guns and more Ammo

I am a crazy Righty anyway. Got my tinfoil hat on tight tonight.

**Snowolf** · 10-17-2009, 04:25 AM

We are not talking about all forms of Capitalism, we are specifically referring to Laze Fare Capitalism; the unbridled, unregulated predatory system that has been the engine of death and destruction on a planetary scale throughout human history.

It may surprise you to learn that I actually agree with a lot of what you have said and I sympathize with more. You are 100% correct when you say both sides are fucked up and are destroying our Republic. This is why I have went from being a Republican to a Democrat, then abandoned that to find my own truth in Democratic Market Socialism.

As the poster above you very correctly points out, true Capitalism has never been employed as an economic system. What we are seeing and have seen throughout human history are various versions of Oligarchy, Despotism, corporatism and Plutocracy. Throughout human history, wealth equals power; those without wealth have very little chance of getting it while those with it, have easy access to gain even more. The lust for power and wealth has been the root of all human warfare throughout our history; all the while hiding behind religion in many cases.

You are absolutely right with your criticism of President Obama. I had very high hope that just maybe, this time, this guy was different, but as every day goes by, he is proving to be yet another corporatist Democrat that is nothing more than Republican light. All of them with perhaps the exception of Bernie Sanders (Socialist) are whores to to lobbyists.

So, I hear, understand and share your frustration and sense of hopelessness. So what do we do about it? Guns and revolution are NEVER the answer. History is repleat with examples of this not working and making bad situations even worse. Social change must come from the bottom up through the people. As a people, Americans are the most politically lazy people on earth. Look at the European people and they way they are engaged with their governments. In France, when the government does something that is totally fucked, the people protest in mega ways. We are not talking a couple of hundred thousand people marching on Washington like here. We are talking nation wide work stoppages and people protesting in Paris in the millions. In France and other European nations, the government fears the people while in America, the people fear the government.

Okay, so what do we as Americans do starting right now to get this train wreck turned around? The answer is very simple, absurdly simple. We get money out of politics! I know, easier said than done, but seriously this is`nt an insurmountable obstacle. First of all, at 18 every single American must register to vote. We must start with urging our Representatives to start introducing legislation for campaign finance reform to make all political campaigns publicly funded and ban all private fund raising and donations. This will have the effect of ending the policy of mega wealthy corporations and special interests from "owning" our Representatives and Senators.

Then we need to enact legislation banning all forms of lobbying. No gifts, contributions or goodies. Along this line, no US Representative or Senator can go to work immediately after their term to prevent "jobs for favors" as we see going on today.

When you end all forms of lobbying, the people we elect to represent us and work for us, will only be answerable to us, the people of the United States, not some multi national corporation. It really is that simple!

So, don`t be angry or despondent, quit listening to the lies coming from the right and the left who are doing the bidding of the corporations. The reason that I and others rag on the right so much is because they are the worst offenders. The Dems are guilty too, but you have to address the dam breach before you worry about the levies. Guys like Limbaugh, Hannity and Beck are the ring leaders in distributing the propaganda of the globalists and corporatists. They must be discredited for the enemies of the people they are.

When looking at the big picture, Democratic Market Socialism is the only sustainable system from both a geopolitical and an ecological point of view. This system is a blend of raw Socialism and Capitalism that takes the good theories from both and melds them into a workable and beneficial system that balances the common good with the incentive to excel in achievement through both personal and monetary rewards. At the same time, the good of the people (all people of the entire planet, not just the wealthy or those in one particular nation)reigns supreme. The workhorse known as Capitalism is kept fully under control with a tight grip of the reins by the people and the government they have empowered to do the people`s work.

No, it is not perfect; you will never ever achieve perfection. But, when you look at nations that practice modern Democratic Market Socialism like Norway, Finland, Sweden and many European nations, the system works and serves their people far better than our naked Laze Fare Capitalism. People in these countries enjoy higher standards of living, better health, longer life expectancies and are actually happier people than us living under the yoke of our version of Capitalism.

Seriously, go see this movie or rent it when it comes out. Mr. Moore is spot on and the people he has interviewed are absolutely correct.

**Snowolf** · 10-17-2009, 04:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank101

The bailouts of the wealthy companies is not capitalism by any means and is the result of cooperate interests of Washington and the bankers on the top of the pyramid of society.

You`re damn right it is`nt Capitalism, it is Corporate Socialism! These bastards from AIG, Goldman Sachs and others in our government like Tim Geitner, Allan Greenspan, Ben Bernackie are the Socialists, The only thing is they believe in Socialism for the global elite and the rest of us are nothing more than peasants.

"Let them eat cake!"

snowjeeper · 10-17-2009, 10:51 AM

Russ Feingold isn't a lobbyist whore

Frank101 · 10-17-2009, 11:44 AM

I lurked this forum for quite some time before I registered. Snowolf have you seen zeitgeist addedum? You said a lot of key things that are covered and either you drew those conclusions yourself or you've seen this movie and agree.

I don't mean to spam this as it being in my sig and this post, but I encourage anyone taking interests in this thread to watch the FREE documentaries in my sig. they are two hours long each and the first 10mins of each is kind of, slow, but after that I guarantee you will be glad you watched even if you disagree.

snowjeeper · 10-17-2009, 12:05 PM

You're absolutely right about that last statement wolf, if you get into their club of the super rich elite, they do talk about us like we're foolish peasants, and that they deserve to be super rich because they are smart enough to take advantage of the rest of us.

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