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07-25-2008, 06:11 AM
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#11 (permalink)
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Samyaksambuddhas
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: I live in one of the world's biggest cities on a tiny island
Posts: 3,508
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well thank you for echoing the sentiments aired in the quoted article gibbous, with regard to the myraid reasons for why the iraki situation is calming down; it is clear that any troop surge whilst possibly contributory to a reduction in violence, was certainly circumstantial to it.
in the meantime, i wouldn't read too much into the german crowds that met Obama in berlin.
they are a population who have become inherently guilt ridden, by what occurred in the 1930s and 40s to ethnic and racial minorities. to welcome a 'black' wouldbe most powerful man in the world, is a mere manifestation of this generational effort to overcompensate for the misdeeds of past generations.
also, it was a nice sunny day and zee germans love a party!
what i find illuminating, and not necessarily for any 'wrong' reason, is the order of destinations during this tour de force. priority number one was to press the flesh of friends in Israel and to placate any wouldbe aggitators in palestine. next was to show up in germany, where the warm reception was guaranteed and choreographed to perfection, which sets the stage by suggesting something to get enthused by, before arrival in the luke warm ambivalence of france and the UK......
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07-25-2008, 07:45 AM
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#12 (permalink)
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Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 36
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Okay, I guess I could have read that a little more thoroughly. But you did say immediately after quoting the article that the position defies rationale, when based on what was in there it seems as valid to me as any other. But it probably doesn't really matter, as you implied most people just use whatever part of an issue supports their beliefs to their advantage and downplay the rest. Who's to say in the end...
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07-25-2008, 09:27 AM
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#13 (permalink)
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Samyaksambuddhas
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: I live in one of the world's biggest cities on a tiny island
Posts: 3,508
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well the irrationality of the item, was that Obama would still oppose the troop surge, even tho it is plausible to say it contributed to the current 'improvement'.
to me, this is as pig headed as McCain blindly stating that the troop increases were the sole influential factor. it seems that to achieve an image, an extreme needs to be promoted; ie no troops or all troops....
how about a hint of moderation? ie 'some troops'? extremism is a bad word these days, but not it seems, for US presidential candidates....
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07-25-2008, 11:29 AM
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#14 (permalink)
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AASI Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mt. Hood Oregon
Posts: 3,859
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Oh, I don`t know, I really agree with Mr. Obama`s point here. The troop surge would not ahve been needed back then if American officials would have been a little less pig headed about dictating everything on American terms including some plan for time tables to withdraw and engaging all parties as Obama is suggesting and in a limited way already doing. I honestly don`t give ANY creadance to this troop surge as being behind any decrease in the violence. All the troop surge did was secure the Green Zone a little better, but in other parts of Iraq, things got worse.
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07-29-2008, 10:26 AM
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#15 (permalink)
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Junior Member
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Clearwater, FL
Posts: 8
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Actually, Barack Obama and John McCain have made recent statements on US offshore oil drilling while on the US presidential campaign trail. Well, Offshore Drilling is a huge issue right now and rightly so. Between the desire to deal with the economic mess that is being spurred by the price of oil and the on-going longer-term concern of global warming, how do we address all of this?
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07-29-2008, 11:25 AM
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#16 (permalink)
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Samyaksambuddhas
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: I live in one of the world's biggest cities on a tiny island
Posts: 3,508
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07-29-2008, 11:49 PM
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#17 (permalink)
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Long Island, New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe
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I don't understand people blaming things on the oil companies. They are in the business of oil. The purpose of which is to make lots and lots and lots and shitloads and boatloads of ridiculous amounts of money. They have a duty to their shareholders.
If you are a socialist and think what is in the ground with inherent value such as oil ought to be owned by the people, that is another matter.
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07-30-2008, 06:08 AM
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#18 (permalink)
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Samyaksambuddhas
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: I live in one of the world's biggest cities on a tiny island
Posts: 3,508
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what i like to question is how multinationals of any industry (but let's stick to petro-chemical) can report ever increasing and record breaking totals of NET PROFIT, whilst all others are suffering economic down turns, inflation and costs, as a consequence of the exact same thing that affords such profits?
the money that makes these profits is acquired by hyper-inflating the cost of the commodity which in turn creates disproportionate poverty.
we are told everything costs more, coz oil costs more. if oil costs more, then oil company profits should either plateau or even decline. any continued increase in profits is merely indicative of the costs rises endured by the consimer being higher than they need to be.
the cause of the current / imminent recession isn't due to recalcitrant arabs, OPEC cartels, evil western war mongers or global fucking warming; it is solely the cause of those people rubbing their hands over ever growing NET PROFITS.
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07-30-2008, 06:12 AM
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#19 (permalink)
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AASI Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mt. Hood Oregon
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Well, I am a Socialist and believe strongly in the idea of "Free Market Socialism" which modern Socialism has tended to embrace. I recognize that there is a place and indeed a need for some Capitalism which promotes creativity, competition and much in the way of social advancement. Where our current "Reagonomics" theory of unregulated, predatory Capitalism completely breaks down is how it has ultimately begun to devour itself through it`s own greed and corruption.
I am all for shareholders, corporations and the wealthy making "reasonable" profits, but what we are seeing is runaway Capitalism and just like a runaway freight train, it is doomed to disaster in the end. The health of the whole society must be factored into any economic equation and things like health, education, infrastructure, defense, transportation, housing and energy are goods and services that a society requires to function and grow. I am a strong advocate of very tight regulation and anti trust oversight, if not nationalization of these industries to protect the entire economy of society.
These fuel prices are not some luxury item than any individual can choose to be free of. Even if you do not drive, you are severely impacted by the cost of everything going up as a result. Everything anyone in society eats, wears, drinks or owns came to them via a plane, train, truck or ship; all of which burn fossil fuels. When these oil companies rape the world as they are doing, it is in my opinion tantamount to crimes against humanity. People in impoverished and under developed nations are literally starving to death as a direct result of these record world oil prices. A reasonable profit is one thing, what is going on now is criminal in my book.
Now, there is plenty of blame to be spread around, I do not solely lay all the blame on the oil companies. Commodities speculators are believed to be responsible to nearly 50% of these record oil prices through their direct manipulation. That has got to stop and investigations along with indictments need to follow. Our foreign and domestic policy under Bush is another factor as well. You simply cannot destabilize the mid east as he has done without creating energy chaos. Add to that the amount of fuel that is now being used to conduct this occupation and the war in Afghanistan. The US Air Force recently reported a $6 billion dollar increase in the annual jet fuel budget. That has a huge impact on world oil prices. As a result of Bush`s domestic polices combined with an overall global economic downturn, the US dollar is at historic lows on the world currency exchange which means it takes a lot more US dollars to purchase the same amount of other commodities such as oil. A lesser, but still growing significant impact is the demand by China and other "developing" nations who are experiencing ever increasing energy demands.
No matter how we look at it, the future looks tough economically and going down this same old unchecked Capitalist model we are using means millions of Americans are going to be left completely behind unless we start raising consciousness and thinking more Socialistically.
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07-30-2008, 06:25 AM
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#20 (permalink)
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AASI Instructor
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Mt. Hood Oregon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marthaofca
Actually, Barrack Obama and John McCain have made recent statements on US offshore oil drilling while on the US presidential campaign trail. Well, Offshore Drilling is a huge issue right now and rightly so. Between the desire to deal with the economic mess that is being spurred by the price of oil and the on-going longer-term concern of global warming, how do we address all of this?
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Drilling is not really the answer. Some talking heads on the right and at Fox News tend to spout out propaganda that the liberals are causing this problem because they wont allow American oil companies to drill. This is complete and utter untruths. The fact is that currently some 89% of all known domestic oil reserves are accessible to drilling under land or sea already approved for drilling. There are some 10,000 issued, but yet unused drilling permits issued. These figures can be easily verified with the Department of Energy`s own reports if you go to the department of energy`s web site.
Additionally, tens of thousands of domestic drill holes sit idle and capped. The reason for this is because the oil companies are waiting until the price of oil becomes even higher so as to reap (or rape) more profit out of these holes.
All of the known US domestic oil reserves if tapped to 100% capacity would only provide about 14% of total US annual energy needs at 2008 levels. so it really is a drop in the bucket if you will pardon the pun.
We need a more sound and sustainable energy policy for America that includes more than lip service to alternative fuels. I am not naive enough to think that Barrack Obama is some second coming, but I do know that McCain`s policies will be nothing more than a continuation of Bush polices with regard to energy along with everything else and we as a nation and a world, cannot afford to "stay the course" much longer.
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