Perpetual3am

I mentioned Black because its a significant development in the evolution of US society to actually elect a black man, for people watching, it in itself might indicate positive progression. The rest of the world views your country within it's historical context, you know slavery and the civil war that was fought over it.

Again, tell me why Al Qaeda should listen to anything that is said right now, Obama isn't in office, and actions speak louder than words. Everyone is tired of the rhetoric, just as recent as the past few years its all been fabricated lies and deception...whoopdeedee, you voted someone in who might do something good for your country, again how does that translate to an act worthy of trust when you're still camped out in Iraq? It doesn't and I wouldn't trust you if I was an insurgent, 40 years of history is against Obama until he actually does something other than making speeches and plans.

You're flat out wrong on this MPD, the US pissed away the world's trust and goodwill in the years after 9/11 by its own actions.

Edit: Fuck Al Qaeda, I don't trust the US gov't, how about you just try to convince me why I should now that Obama is elected.

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KIRKWOOD-$LUT

i do not trust us either
one person can not change, obama is not black, he is half, so drop the race because there is only 1 race the human race
we are the only super power, and you know everybody always hates the first place team
im behind him, but he better keep his promises, which i doubt he will like the rest of these over paid POS's

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Snowolf

One of the things not brought up in this conversation is the fact that Al Qaeda did not exist within Iraq before the U.S. Invasion and ill planned occupation. Al Qeada is very Islamic extremist, while Saddam`s Baath party were very secular (for Islam) and were seen as infidels by the likes of Bin Ladden.

When we toppled the regime and the moron; L. Paul Bremmer became the viceroy in charge of post Saddam Iraq, he failed utterly to secure the country. In a staggering display of ineptitude, he disbanded the Iraqi army and sent thousands of men with training and weapons onto the streets with no paycheck. These guys were easy recruits for outside interests (IE Al Qaeda) to target Americans and Iraqi Police. The leadership vacuum we created by the incompetence to plan for post war Iraq, created the environment that was ripe for an insurgency against us. In the chaos created by this, we were unable to keep Iraq`s borders secure and the next thing you know we have Al Qaeda operating in theater.

We absolutely must recognize that Al Qaeda in Afghanistan and Pakistan is the root of the worst of the terrorism. We are distracted and bogged down by Iraq and we must draw down troops there and bolster our forces in Afghanistan where we are fighting an uphill battle against Al Qaeda and the Taliban. Obama is 100% correct when he says we need to increase troop strength in Afghanistan, The military generals in charge of that conflict all agree they are terribly under manned. It may not be popular, but it is the right action to take and the only we can possibly do it short of a draft is to redeploy.

We must talk with the the leaders of the insurgency as well as Al Qaeda to attempt to achieve some of the things we hope for. Even if it is no more that stalling for time as we ramp up our ability to fight in Afghanistan and work with Pakistan to make cross border attacks upon Al Qaeda encampments inside Pakistan.

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PaoloSmythe

do you really think that the people in irak, who have relatives 'arrested'; who see Hum vees patrolling; who have little electricty and no water; who suffer the 'colateral' damage of insurgent versus coalition, would take assurance from an electorial process thousands of miles away, that those things they would oppose on their very own doorsteps are no longer cause for concern?

obama being elected changes nothing in irak and so why on earth would expect to see difference in their behaviour?

there is nothing 'neutral' about occupying a foreign country.

the point being, what happened was criminal if not genocidal and yet no one is being made accountable. it is easy for you (someone who has lost nothing) to 'get over it'.... for others......

trustis earnt

this runs contrary to your recently often repeated expression about 'vengence best served cold'. but then consistency was never a strong point of your's was it?

really? i do not think you do. please explain so we can show you your arse... again!

*sigh* AQ announced that an Obama victory would be welcomed before the result and indeed have suggested that shrewd action by him as pres-elect would also be beneficial.

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PaoloSmythe

what a dumb arsed thing to say

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mpdsnowman

They should listen because it is very clear that America has chosen a new direction. The whole world recognizes this fact perp. We have chosen to "move on" from a GOP lets push the war button to a more civil style of Govt. Now trust has to start somewhere perp.And it has to come from BOTH sides. We have to trust those assholes too! And we dont put out rhetoric like they do. We dont tell the public to go kill all muslims do we?? no we dont!

Im not saying AQ has to trust anyone. What I am saying is this is the perfect opportunity to sit and conceivably put an end to violence and your long time historical spitefull lets hold on to the negative they did this to us mentality. Why should they trust us? Whats the harm in sitting at a neutral meeting to discuss dialogue?? whats the harm...I will tell u the harm. Without violence groups like AQ will disapate. They are built on violence and terror. They dont want peace and you know this. They make it very clear in what they publicise. Do u want to deny that???

Exactly! and our new incoming President has said many times he would be willing to do this. Problem is the other side, they dont want to do that, they want to keep killing.

I think the people of Iraq want this to end and their lives to be restored. I think the people of Iraq understand that they are caught in the middle of a war that really doesnt involve them. I am confident that they would support a peace summit if that could lead to troop withdrawl, systems restored, life of peace within their country. They dont hate our troops paolo. I can proove that with my nephew in the war. The iraq people do appreciate them being there. Its AQ and taliban they dont like. They are the head cutters not us.

Really? show me proof. I want to read that statment. If that is how they feel then why must they continue to tell all muslims to keep attacks on the US?? I wanna see the actual statement then lets compare to the recent ones..

They are nothing more than killing trash talkers. AGain show me the proof. I dont find that on the internet. If its "beneficial" as you say then why dont they sit and talk with Mr. Benefitial???

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M P D S N O W M A N

Perpetual3am

First off, nothing is clear since Obama hasn't even stepped into office, there is nothing to indicate he will actually put his words into action. And no, you don't tell people to kill other people, you do it yourself by illegally invading countries every decade. Your country has killed, maimed and displaced more innocent people than the Taliban will EVER do. You know nothing of context and the you constantly trivialize the history of your country.

The harm comes from not being able to trust the US, why put yourself in harm's way when it is likely the US will just drop bombs on the site of the meeting, even if it is in another country as it hasn't stopped you from attacking sites in Pakistan. Given the US history, its likely you'll just stab them in the back, again trust is earned.


Talk is cheap, same ol story from the US.


You think? Wow, you really have a keen insight
And see here is just another indication you still don't have a clue, the insurgency is now home grown, that's what happens when you treat the population like dogs...actually less than dogs since the feral dog population is thriving in Iraq.


Great, now let's see him do it. I wouldn't trust you until then, and on top of numerous other positive steps. Now tell me how someone from a country with hardly any access to media and has rampant illiteracy would understand all of Obama's rhetoric. You seem to think everyone in Afghanistan and Iraq was huddled around television sets cheering for Obama, but then again your American so you think everyone will greet you as liberators...yeah that worked out real well.

SO tell me, I still don't trust you so if you can't convince me, why would anyone else believe you? You should really learn the true history of your country, might help to get a clue Ostrich-D.

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PaoloSmythe

There has been a preference expressed by just over half of the american population. Nothing has changed.

This is true. But I would hope that America would wish to compare itself to standards far greater, than those set by an extremist terrorist organisation!!

The harm is, that whilst international statements announce the intent to negotiate and therefore suggest an effort towards peace, on the ground in irak, the troops are still fighting with little to no coverage.

Actions speak louder than words.

Of course this is entirely deniable. It might be true that AQ only continue to exist for as long as there is something to fight against; but AQ are funded and manned by normal people who are indoctrinated by them, thanks to the sort of things the US has done up until today.

AQ have stated that a withdrawal of western forces from muslim territory will bring an end to the violence. And yet you will not leave, but worse, you suggest they want no end to the fighting?

Indeed and their democratically elected representatives of their gov has announced the desire for coalition forces to depart. And yet…..

It is not about 'hate' nor decaptitation. Stay on track MPD. We exist over there as a conquering force. A force that is not desired. There is nothing personal in this; AQ was never there until we were. Now we are all there and have rendered their country into a waste land.

You want proof? Go fish MPD. I have taken the time to find evidence for you before, only for it to be dismissed for whatever spurious reason. You will believe what you will.

The desire to see attacks continue against US interests stems from the exact same reality we have been using to counter your POV; that talk is cheap and that nothing has changed.

AQ demands removal of US forces before ceasation of violence; the election of Obama is no where close to being the removal of western forces. The fight continues, by your country's choice.

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zakk

I like tacos.

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The most amazingly terrible snowboarder of ALL TIME!

PaoloSmythe

your brain is tacos.

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