Thread Tools

Display Modes

PaoloSmythe · 11-24-2008, 06:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KIRKWOOD-$LUT

sure and the UK wanted to bail out

and so?

Quote:

we are the superpower get real my friend and over your little island

if you and i are reflective of the intellectual capacities of our two nations...... you might need to revise this statement if you wish to retain any credability in claiming superiority.

Quote:

we have a state that is in the top 5 of biggest world businesses, not a country

yeah.... but whilst your and my nations are up to our arses in war in the middle east, to presumably shore up future supplies of fossil fuels, who is expending most money and human lives?

it is worth baring in mind that we founded you and indeed, you continue to work for us. we just let you assume that you have control of things, by endorsing morons in the whitehouse who know rhetoric enuff to convince the masses.

i leave the facts to speak for themselves. you are welcome.... and yeah, you are a super power. just look what you do (for us!)

mpdsnowman · 11-24-2008, 08:42 AM

Quote:

Yet those cases are the exception not the rule. Seriously, people go bankrupt every day over health care costs and the insurance companies work harder at denying claims than they do at covering their paying customers.

Well hang on. The exception to the rule is those who do go bankrupt over insurance senarios. Most Americans do fine with it. Example: someone who has a serious medical condition say cancer and has no health insurance would have to foot the bill. that is really the exception. Reality is Americans are healthy by numbers and those unfortunate people(and yes it can happen to anyone) can get caught.

Quote:

In the last 5 years health insurance premiums have doubled while coverage has dropped. This is a broken system and while you personally may not have had any negative encounters with it, millions of Americans do. Facts simply do not bear out your Rosy picture of private, for profit health care. I suppose it goes without saying that you have refused to watch Sicko? The heartbreaking situations depicted in the movie are reality for millions of Americans.

I saw it, and its true...but overemphasized, come on Mike Moore throws a little more salt in the soup. Plans do go up but coverage isnt retracked. U just pay more is all.

Quote:

It is long past time to junk this corrupt Capitalist health care system in favor of Single Payer that actually serves the people, not fat cat insurance executives and their stock holders. A human being`s health is not something that should be based on profit; this system is immoral and needs to be abolished

It will never happen wanna know why. Because the Doctors and their lawyers and the insurance companies and their lawyers and the politicians and thier insurance lobbying buddies along with their lawyers will never give up their livleyhood.

I beleive our system of health care is way to far advanced with too many fat cats including those in politics with strings attached and insurance companies with arm twisting tactics for anything else to be put in place.

Perpetual3am · 11-24-2008, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpdsnowman

Well hang on. The exception to the rule is those who do go bankrupt over insurance senarios. Most Americans do fine with it. Example: someone who has a serious medical condition say cancer and has no health insurance would have to foot the bill. that is really the exception. Reality is Americans are healthy by numbers and those unfortunate people(and yes it can happen to anyone) can get caught.

15.5% of your population has no health insurance AT ALL, but somehow you think "Americans are healthy by numbers"??!???

Quote:

I saw it, and its true...but overemphasized, come on Mike Moore throws a little more salt in the soup. Plans do go up but coverage isnt retracked. U just pay more is all.

So how do you pay more when your salary isn't increasing at the same rate? Thus you wonder why 47.5 million Americans are without health insurance. Do you really think that with all the foreclosures, those people still have a mythical nest egg for health insurance, but yet didn't want to make their mortgage payment?

And even if you have medical coverage, it doesn't mean its adequate, so that percentage is likely much higher

From this article: 45.7 Million Americans Still Without Health Insurance | MedHeadlines

Quote:

"Of that 45.7 million Americans without health insurance, 8.1 million of them were children. For the sake of census bureau purposes, to be insured
means having available any form of health insurance, including employer-linked private plans, insurance purchased directly, or insurance supplied by the federal government, including Medicaid, Medicare, and the military.

Karen Davis, PhD, however, warns that simply having access to medical insurance does not mean high medical bills can be avoided nor does it mean adequate medical care will be provided. Davis, a healthcare economist, is president of the private foundation, The Commonwealth Fund.

Davis is as concerned about the nation’s underinsured citizens as she is worried about those with no insurance coverage at all. In just two years, the number of US adults who are underinsured rose from 16 million to 25 million. Underinsured means a person has access to coverage but income is so low that he or she cannot afford the out-of-pocket expenses, such as deductibles, premiums, and co-payments, that make medical insurance coverage work.

For that 45.7 million Americans without health insurance, medical care doesn’t happen for free, a point recently reported by Jack Hadley, PhD, and his colleagues at the George Mason University. In the August 25 issue of Health Affairs, Hadley reports an estimated expenditure of $30 billion in out-of-pocket medical costs to be paid by people with no medical insurance in 2008. Thirty billion dollars, however, isn’t enough to cover all medical expenses accrued by uninsured Americans. The US government is expected to foot the bill for the remaining $56 billion in healthcare costs to uninsured Americans this year.

Both Davis and Hadley describe our current healthcare system as troubled, largely because health care in the US is so strongly linked to employment and the health insurance coverage provided by employers. This form of insurance is dwindling and covers little more than half the US population at best. In 2006, 59.7% of the population was covered under employment-based medical insurance plans. That rate dropped to 59.3% for 2007 but that number, too, is expected to drop as time goes by.

Again MPD, a 2 second google search would end these fallacies you hold on to about healthcare in your country. I swear I used that same article when I pointed out the same inaccuracies over a year ago in another debate about health care with you. Why do you hate education so much?

mpdsnowman · 11-24-2008, 10:04 AM

Quote:

15.5% of your population has no health insurance AT ALL, but somehow you think "Americans are healthy by numbers"??!???

Having health insurance or not has no bearing on how healthy someone is. Why do u think insurance companies make so much money??? Because we pay every month but dont go to the doctors every month and rack up expenses insurance companies have to pay out. On a whole Americans as most countries are predominently healthy. Not to jinx myself but look at me...46, never a broken bone, never anything more than a cold...yet I pay every month $1400.00 for H.I.

Quote:

So how do you pay more when your salary isn't increasing at the same rate? Thus you wonder why 47.5 million Americans are without health insurance. Do you really think that with all the foreclosures, those people still have a mythical nest egg for health insurance, but yet didn't want to make their mortgage payment?

And even if you have medical coverage, it doesn't mean its adequate, so that percentage is likely much higher

Well true insurance costs go up yearly but honestly not by that much. Mine has gone up $400.00 per month in the past 12 years. thats about $33.00 monthly increase per year. Now I am not gonna sugur coat it. It aint cheap and yea many cannot afford it for sure. But those people seem to know how to work around that.

Quote:

Again MPD, a 2 second google search would end these fallacies you hold on to about healthcare in your country. I swear I used that same article when I pointed out the same inaccuracies over a year ago in another debate about health care with you. Why do you hate education so much?

Look u have to deal with the cards u r thrown. While u wait in line for three hours for a doctors visit(u posted that once). I am out in 20 minutes and have my dope from the pharmacy in an hour from then. While you may have to wait 3 months or longer for major testing ie:cat scans etc. we can get them scheduled within a week.

Plus having to pay for health insurance sort of makes u really intend on taking care of yourself physically. Nobody wants to be ill

tomtom88 · 11-24-2008, 10:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Perpetual3am

Again MPD, a 2 second google search would end these fallacies you hold on to about healthcare in your country. I swear I used that same article when I pointed out the same inaccuracies over a year ago in another debate about health care with you. Why do you hate education so much?

if google is how you find your so called "evidence" then i fail to see how you yourself embrace education. try using some viable search engines that find scholarly articles. you know like ebsco or something more "educated" than
google.

mpdsnowman · 11-24-2008, 10:13 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Perpetual3am · 11-24-2008, 10:16 AM

As usual you relate your experiences as being the same for your ENTIRE country, thus your claims are dubious at best. Read the article, it completely contradicts your experience. Show me something other than your personal experience, for if I was going to go by mine alone, Canada has no healthcare problems...which is obviously not true. See how that personal experience works? Again, this was explained to you previously, yet you still don't get it.

I also can't believe you just said that having health insurance or not has no bearing on the health of an individual. Common sense dictates that if you can't get medical treatment for an issue it will only get worse and be compounded with further health issues. Show me actual evidence to the contrary and not the experience of one person in 305 million. Holding on to these fallacies about the US healthcare system just makes you look stupid.

Perpetual3am · 11-24-2008, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomtom88

if google is how you find your so called "evidence" then i fail to see how you yourself embrace education. try using some viable search engines that find scholarly articles. you know like ebsco or something more "educated" than
google.

It's a starting point, show me where I said it was the end all, be all of education? Instead of telling me how shit Google is, show me an article that contradicts what I've shown. Are the numbers in that article false? Do you actually have a point?

Edit: Not knowing what ebsco was I went to their site and it doesn't look like you can get a login unless your part of an educational institution. If that is the case and I'm not mistaken, why would you recommend something none of us can access? Helpful? No.

Perpetual3am · 11-24-2008, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpdsnowman

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Pretty funny coming from the guy who hasn't opened a book in the last 10 years.

mpdsnowman · 11-24-2008, 10:28 AM

Look those types of articles center on the sick and those who have no health insurance. The healthy ones(the majority) dont have a problem other than they pay H.I. Do u want to admit that 80% of the people u know are sick?? and I mean sick to the point of racking up medical expenses?? Look around you. Look everywhere u go. Most people are healthy

Quote:

I also can't believe you just said that having health insurance or not has no bearing on the health of an individual. Common sense dictates that if you can't get medical treatment for an issue it will only get worse and be compounded with further health issues. Show me actual evidence to the contrary and not the experience of one person in 305 million. Holding on to these fallacies about the US healthcare system just makes you look stupid.
Today 11:13 AM

See u miss the point. Just because someone doesnt have health insurance does not mean that they will or would not receive treatment. Everyone will get treated its just a question of how they get paid. Here is a real life example

Last week a friend of mine had Bronchities(or however its spelled). for a week it was getting worse, real bad and finally his roomate had to take him to the emergency room. Now Frank has no health insurance. Matter of fact he doesnt make much money where he works. His roomate brought him to the emergency room where he sat for about an hour then was looked at by the doctors. He was diagnosed, signed a piece of paper that said he does owe the money, he was given a prescription where he had to pay full shot($40.00).

Now once he gets the bill all he has to do is send a small payment in and they will continue to bill him monthly. Point being u either get billed by the monthly insurance u pay or get billed by the hospital. Total Bill came to $250.00 which includes the prescription.

Frank hasnt been sick in years. he doesnt even remember when he last went to the hospital or doctors. He has not had H.I ever in his life.

Bottom line I pay $1400 for me monthly, he pays $250.00 and both of us can and will get treated again if need be...

Thread Tools Display Modes

Register Now

View more Snow Boarding photos

Thread Tools

Display Modes