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Old 01-13-2009, 12:14 PM   #101 (permalink)
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Paolo, you forgot to add that they also wear black pajamas... those fuckin' jerks!

Now, get back on track and argue with Vlaze, which is actually an intellectual debate and entertaining. As entertaining as the argument with pointman is, it lacks intellect, and you're dropping to his level. It's just to hard to argue against "rock throwing buddies wearing black pajamas".
 
Old 01-13-2009, 12:14 PM   #102 (permalink)
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^^^ looks like Smiley has made his way over from sb.com.

Vlaze, you’re espousing the same mistruths AIPAC routinely peddle out every time things go pear-shaped in the Middle East.

Hamas stated 3 years ago they that they would be prepared to enter consider a permanent peace with Israel if various conditions were met (namely, Israel withdraws to the 1948-9 borders, ceases illegal annexation of Palestinian land, withdraws all their forces from Palestinian territory; plus a couple others I forget). of course, this statement was largely ignored in Israel and was completely buried by the American media.

as others have already alluded to, Hamas has agreed to ceasefires before. they broke some, respected others. they even had discussions with Jimmy Carter last year about a more lasting resolution. if anything, it shows that Hamas can be coerced if meaningful dialogue is pursued.

so now several human rights / humanitarian organisations have all highlighted the desperate situation in Gaza and some suggest the death toll could amount to genocide. I think it’s incredible how quickly global support mobilised for intervention in Kosovo after around 2,000 people were killed (and the majority of those were not murdered by the Serbs) over a period of several months, and yet, here we have over 500 killed and almost 4,000 wounded in the space of 2 weeks... but still the world continues to dither. and why do the IDF indisriminately bomb whole areas when their weaponry is so high-tech they could put a missile up the ass of a camel from hundreds of miles away with pinpoint accuracy? why is the bombing not more refined?

to suggest that this is all entirely the fault of the Palestinians is ludicrous. the Palestinians have very real grievances based upon their experiences with the IDF on a daily basis – where they are subjected to constant bullying and intimidation; are forcibly removed from their homes which are illegally bulldozed to make way for Israeli expansion; denied passage through checkpoints regardless of possessing the correct papers and having a legitimate reason for their journey. they have to endure fighter-jets performing sonic booms at near-ground level late at night; are denied access to emergency services, ambulances deliberately held up at checkpoints, utility supplies randomly cut off for any length of time on the whims of the IDF, etc.

the list is endless, and while some issues are relatively minor, so long as the IDF continues to get a free pass in persisting with this behaviour, more resentment towards them shall breed, and another generation of terrorists / suicide bombers is born.

by the way, are you aware that Mossad created Hamas..? such was Israeli ineffectiveness against the PLO and Fatah, Yitzhak Shamir and his government thought it would a great idea to weaken support for the main Palestinian groups, and divide Palestinian opinion by creating a right-wing organisation to act as counter-balance, while hoping the new group’s strong emphasis on Islam would persuade Palestinians to spend more time praying, less time hating Israel. they clearly didn’t think it through properly, huh?
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Old 01-13-2009, 12:50 PM   #103 (permalink)
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and why do the IDF indisriminately bomb whole areas when their weaponry is so high-tech they could put a missile up the ass of a camel from hundreds of miles away with pinpoint accuracy? why is the bombing not more refined?
I just wanted to address this point. The accuracy you're refering to is only possible with laser guided munitions. In order to guide that bomb to the target, someone has to be on the ground nearby pointing the laser at said target. That's not always possible even for US forces. And we're sneaky fucks. Bombs dropped from planes are accurate in that they'll usually hit the building you wanted to hit provided the pilot is capable. Now, when that building is next to a school, being off by 50-100ft could be the difference between killing your target or a classroom of kids.

Hollywood has done a good job of making people believe bombs are these magical devices that can fall hundreds of miles per hour from a few thousand feet in the air and land on the edge of a dime spinning on a sidewalk.
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Old 01-13-2009, 02:11 PM   #104 (permalink)
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Not just Hollywood, but the media as well, I can't believe how many times I heard during the initial stages of the Iraq war how the US army could put a 500 lb down a chimney.
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Old 01-13-2009, 03:17 PM   #105 (permalink)
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The media and Hollywood have also done a good job at glorifying war as well. Stop the bad guys and save man kind... and get the girl in the end, all the while jumping through explosions, saving small children, stopping terrorist attacks and just kickin' ass in general.

I also wonder what kind of effect video games have. Seems as though people forget that the real cost of war is human life... you can't hit re-start.
 
Old 01-14-2009, 05:27 AM   #106 (permalink)
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Now, get back on track and argue with Vlaze, which is actually an intellectual debate and entertaining.
i would love to... but without resorting to his ancient text of preference, Vlaze flails.

even efforts to make modern day parallels, to draw An ethical comparative thru modern expectations of morality fail to even garner comment.... and so what can i do?

i have tried to keep the minutae progressive; to avoid running in circles; i have even resisted dragging up the source of Israel's vast arsenal and impetous and yet....

Quote:
As entertaining as the argument with pointman is, it lacks intellect, and you're dropping to his level. It's just to hard to argue against "rock throwing buddies wearing black pajamas".
this is true. but given his name and avatar (and i admit i presume much) i hope that what he lacks in 'lyrical composure', he compensates for thru sheer first hand experience.
silly terms of phrase aside, i wouldn't disregard him on 'presentation skills' alone.....

even if i do treat as i find and consequently reduce myself to a 'level'.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:41 AM   #107 (permalink)
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Hollywood has done a good job of making people believe bombs are these magical devices that can fall hundreds of miles per hour from a few thousand feet in the air and land on the edge of a dime spinning on a sidewalk.

well so too has the IDF extolled this fiction of descrimating precision.

a recent film clip was released, alleging to show a laser guarded weapon following a 'terrorist vehicle', only for the laser dot being moved away from the desired target at the last moment, due to the jeep (seemingly being aware of its imminent doom) moving to 'hide' amoungst a crowd of 'innocent civilians'.

naturally this one cherry-picked clip of black and white vehicles and human figures filmed from on high, does everything necessary to relief the IDF of any suggestion that the hundreds of dead children thus far, were nothing more than unfortunate and highly regretable victims of Palestinian aggression.
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Old 01-14-2009, 05:44 AM   #108 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by slimpanzee View Post
The media and Hollywood have also done a good job at glorifying war as well. Stop the bad guys and save man kind... and get the girl in the end, all the while jumping through explosions, saving small children, stopping terrorist attacks and just kickin' ass in general.

I also wonder what kind of effect video games have. Seems as though people forget that the real cost of war is human life... you can't hit re-start.
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Old 01-14-2009, 10:49 AM   #109 (permalink)
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^^^Not exactly what I meant, as this movie is making fun of the movies I was talking about. But funny none-the-less
 
Old 01-14-2009, 12:46 PM   #110 (permalink)
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I just wanted to address this point. The accuracy you're refering to is only possible with laser guided munitions. In order to guide that bomb to the target, someone has to be on the ground nearby pointing the laser at said target. That's not always possible even for US forces. And we're sneaky fucks. Bombs dropped from planes are accurate in that they'll usually hit the building you wanted to hit provided the pilot is capable. Now, when that building is next to a school, being off by 50-100ft could be the difference between killing your target or a classroom of kids.

Hollywood has done a good job of making people believe bombs are these magical devices that can fall hundreds of miles per hour from a few thousand feet in the air and land on the edge of a dime spinning on a sidewalk.
well, over the years I've seen various people from the arms manufacturers hype the latest weaponry they produce with video footage and simulations of their missiles being tested, with the emphasis always on ever greater destruction with ever greater accuracy, usually down to within a feet feet of the intended target, or so they claim.

such claims are later reinforced by military generals and other figures at the Pentagon, MoD, etc, when they produce footage of 'successful' bombing operations undertaken in Iraq, Afghanistan, Lebanon, etc, so it's difficult for me to be sure of just how accurate their missiles are.

Quote:
I also wonder what kind of effect video games have. Seems as though people forget that the real cost of war is human life... you can't hit re-start.
that's like saying Marilyn Manson is to blame when some angsty teenagers in long coats decide to shoot up a school.. or when rap lyrics are responsible for a drive-by
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