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post #1 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 08:50 AM Thread Starter
Zee
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Gitmo

I'm glad to see Obama working towards getting rid of Gitmo. Your opinions?

Last edited by Zee; 01-22-2009 at 10:31 AM.
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post #2 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 09:22 AM
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Gtmo is an embarrassment and thats a fairly bi-partisan stance in Washington. I dont think anyone really wants to just open the doors but public trials and "transparency" as Obama says is for sure needed. Trying to be the bastion of freedom while holding 1000's without due process or trial doesnt really go hand in hand. The time table stuff I saw yesterday was around a year for everything to get done.
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post #3 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:13 AM Thread Starter
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My biggest problem with Gitmo has been that it was a way to avoind due process, that is why it is not on US soil. In addition, the Bush administration claimed that the detainees had no rights under the geneva convention because they were "illegal combatants". This effectively means that anyone, absolutely anyone, can be held at gitmo with no real recourse.

Consider that there have been several suicides and dozens of suicide attempts despite suicides amongst Muslims being extremely (and I mean extremely) rare, and unheard of in devout Muslims.
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post #4 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:21 AM
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it is no way a bad thing. it stands as a lasting symbol of double standards and injustice.

as such, Obama is shrewdly looking to make a significant, symbolic statement himself, by working to make Gitmo's abolition the first major action of his term(s) in office.

I sincerely hope it stands as an example of the standard by which he aspires to continue for his duration, and raises the expectations of americans and the rest of the world of america, to lead (if so desired) by example and to higher ideals than those exhibited by those 'needing' to be led.

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post #5 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:27 AM
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I can't get on to those jeep forums, but I have yet to hear an valid arguement that Gitmo is a good thing, and not just a symbol of America's hypocricy. I, like Paolo, I hope this is an example of better things to come.

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post #6 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:30 AM
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I understand the fear that drove us as a country to create and tolerate Gitmo (and we did tolerate it). But I think that's where the terrorists won. They created enough fear for us to abandon our own principles and no longer uphold the sanctity of freedom.

It's an amazing example of what happens when we let fear control our decisions. I don't really blame Bush for it either. I don't blame him for much of anything aside from picking a piss poor cabinet and set of advisors. I think his advisors/cabinet are the true criminals. I believe he was doing what he was advised to do and lacked the mental fortitude to make his own decisions. We are also to blame for allowing it to happen.

As far as Gitmo goes, the blame rests soley with us (the american public).

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post #7 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:33 AM Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Perpetual3am View Post
I can't get on to those jeep forums, but I have yet to hear an valid arguement that Gitmo is a good thing, and not just a symbol of America's hypocricy. I, like Paolo, I hope this is an example of better things to come.
Heh, they used to have it open, some of the stuff I see in there is embarrassing, as in "you guys can't be that stupid".
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post #8 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:45 AM
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I understand the fear that drove us as a country to create and tolerate Gitmo (and we did tolerate it). But I think that's where the terrorists won. They created enough fear for us to abandon our own principles and no longer uphold the sanctity of freedom.

It's an amazing example of what happens when we let fear control our decisions. I don't really blame Bush for it either. I don't blame him for much of anything aside from picking a piss poor cabinet and set of advisors. I think his advisors/cabinet are the true criminals. I believe he was doing what he was advised to do and lacked the mental fortitude to make his own decisions. We are also to blame for allowing it to happen.

As far as Gitmo goes, the blame rests soley with us (the american public).
What also really helped with this fear mongering was the Bush administration. That stupid ass color chart they came up with, and sticking that up on the news with orange and red alerts, telling us all to keep a look out. I ignored that crap and went about my daily life.
post #9 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 10:54 AM
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Originally Posted by slimpanzee View Post
What also really helped with this fear mongering was the Bush administration. That stupid ass color chart they came up with, and sticking that up on the news with orange and red alerts, telling us all to keep a look out. I ignored that crap and went about my daily life.
they had the same thing over here.... only you had to log onto a government website to check it. i thought that was interesting.

i have been used to such 'code colours' tho, as believe it or not... i used to work for the government! on security no less! fun times.... me, the MOD and the IRA..... oh how we'd laugh!

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post #10 of 63 (permalink) Old 01-22-2009, 01:06 PM
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What really annoyed with with the code color thing, wasn't really that it was created, but how it was used. It seemed like it was strategically used, not to really keep us aware of something, but to scare us a bit so we'd "remember 9-11", and maybe, juuuuust maybe, Bush's approval ratings would rise again. I just felt like it was a fear mongering execution, rather than one that was truly used to help us stay safe.

And it just made people start looking at me funny!!
 

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