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Old 01-22-2009, 08:34 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Default a look into the future

an article by Dick Morris. its seems relevant.

The Obama presidency: Here comes socialism
By Dick Morris
Posted: 01/20/09 06:12 PM [ET]
2009-2010 will rank with 1913-14, 1933-36, 1964-65 and 1981-82 as years that will permanently change our government, politics and lives. Just as the stars were aligned for Wilson, Roosevelt, Johnson and Reagan, they are aligned for Obama. Simply put, we enter his administration as free-enterprise, market-dominated, laissez-faire America. We will shortly become like Germany, France, the United Kingdom, or Sweden — a socialist democracy in which the government dominates the economy, determines private-sector priorities and offers a vastly expanded range of services to many more people at much higher taxes.

Obama will accomplish his agenda of “reform” under the rubric of “recovery.” Using the electoral mandate bestowed on a Democratic Congress by restless voters and the economic power given his administration by terrified Americans, he will change our country fundamentally in the name of lifting the depression. His stimulus packages won’t do much to shorten the downturn — although they will make it less painful — but they will do a great deal to change our nation.

In implementing his agenda, Barack Obama will emulate the example of Franklin D. Roosevelt. (Not the liberal mythology of the New Deal, but the actuality of what it accomplished.) When FDR took office, he was enormously successful in averting a total collapse of the banking system and the economy. But his New Deal measures only succeeded in lowering the unemployment rate from 23 percent in 1933, when he took office, to 13 percent in the summer of 1937. It never went lower. And his policies of over-regulation generated such business uncertainty that they triggered a second-term recession. Unemployment in 1938 rose to 17 percent and, in 1940, on the verge of the war-driven recovery, stood at 15 percent. (These data and the real story of Hoover’s and Roosevelt’s missteps, uncolored by ideology, are available in The Forgotten Man by Amity Shlaes, copyright 2007.)

But in the name of a largely unsuccessful effort to end the Depression, Roosevelt passed crucial and permanent reforms that have dominated our lives ever since, including Social Security, the creation of the Securities and Exchange Commission, unionization under the Wagner Act, the federal minimum wage and a host of other fundamental changes.

Obama’s record will be similar, although less wise and more destructive. He will begin by passing every program for which liberals have lusted for decades, from alternative-energy sources to school renovations, infrastructure repairs and technology enhancements. These are all good programs, but they normally would be stretched out for years. But freed of any constraint on the deficit — indeed, empowered by a mandate to raise it as high as possible — Obama will do them all rather quickly.

But it is not his spending that will transform our political system, it is his tax and welfare policies. In the name of short-term stimulus, he will give every American family (who makes less than $200,000) a welfare check of $1,000 euphemistically called a refundable tax credit. And he will so sharply cut taxes on the middle class and the poor that the number of Americans who pay no federal income tax will rise from the current one-third of all households to more than half. In the process, he will create a permanent electoral majority that does not pay taxes, but counts on ever-expanding welfare checks from the government. The dependency on the dole, formerly limited in pre-Clinton days to 14 million women and children on Aid to Families with Dependent Children, will now grow to a clear majority of the American population.

Will he raise taxes? Why should he? With a congressional mandate to run the deficit up as high as need be, there is no reason to raise taxes now and risk aggravating the depression. Instead, Obama will follow the opposite of the Reagan strategy. Reagan cut taxes and increased the deficit so that liberals could not increase spending. Obama will raise spending and increase the deficit so that conservatives cannot cut taxes. And, when the economy is restored, he will raise taxes with impunity, since the only people who will have to pay them would be rich Republicans.

In the name of stabilizing the banking system, Obama will nationalize it. Using Troubled Asset Relief Program funds to write generous checks to needy financial institutions, his administration will demand preferred stock in exchange. Preferred stock gets dividends before common stockholders do. With the massive debt these companies will owe to the government, they will only be able to afford dividends for preferred stockholders — the government, not private investors. So who will buy common stock? And the government will demand that its bills be paid before any profits that might materialize are reinvested in the financial institution, so how will the value of the stocks ever grow? Devoid of private investors, these institutions will fall ever more under government control.

Obama will begin the process by limiting executive compensation. Then he will urge restructuring and lowering of home mortgages in danger of default (as the feds have already done with Citibank).

Then will come guidance on the loans to make and government instructions on the types of enterprises to favor. God grant that some Blagojevich type is not in charge of the program, using his power to line his pockets. The United States will find itself with an economic system comparable to that of Japan, where the all-powerful bureaucracy at MITI (Ministry of International Trade and Industry) manages the economy, often making mistakes like giving mainframe computers priority over the development of laptops.

But it is the healthcare system that will experience the most dramatic and traumatic of changes. The current debate between erecting a Medicare-like governmental single payer or channeling coverage through private insurance misses the essential point. Without a lot more doctors, nurses, clinics, equipment and hospital beds, health resources will be strained to the breaking point. The people and equipment that now serve 250 million Americans and largely neglect all but the emergency needs of the other 50 million will now have to serve everyone. And, as government imposes ever more Draconian price controls and income limits on doctors, the supply of practitioners and equipment will decline as the demand escalates. Price increases will be out of the question, so the government will impose healthcare rationing, denying the older and sicker among us the care they need and even barring them from paying for it themselves. (Rationing based on income and price will be seen as immoral.)

And Obama will move to change permanently the partisan balance in America. He will move quickly to legalize all those who have been in America for five years, albeit illegally, and to smooth their paths to citizenship and voting. He will weaken border controls in an attempt to hike the Latino vote as high as he can in order to make red states like Texas into blue states like California. By the time he is finished, Latinos and African-Americans will cast a combined 30 percent of the vote. If they go by top-heavy margins for the Democrats, as they did in 2008, it will assure Democratic domination (until they move up the economic ladder and become good Republicans).

And he will enact the check-off card system for determining labor union representation, repealing the secret ballot in union elections. The result will be to raise the proportion of the labor force in unions up to the high teens from the current level of about 12 percent.

Finally, he will use the expansive powers of the Federal Communications Commission to impose “local” control and ownership of radio stations and to impose the “fairness doctrine” on talk radio. The effect will be to drive talk radio to the Internet, fundamentally change its economics, and retard its growth for years hence.

But none of these changes will cure the depression. It will end when the private sector works through the high debt levels that triggered the collapse in the first place. And, then, the large stimulus package deficits will likely lead to rapid inflation, probably necessitating a second recession to cure it.

So Obama’s name will be mud by 2012 and probably by 2010 as well. And the Republican Party will make big gains and regain much of its lost power.

But it will be too late to reverse the socialism of much of the economy, the demographic change in the electorate, the rationing of healthcare by the government, the surge of unionization and the crippling of talk radio.

Morris, a former adviser to Sen. Trent Lott (R-Miss.) and President Bill Clinton, is the author of Outrage. To get all of Dick Morris’s and Eileen McGann’s columns for free by email, go to DickMorris.com. To order a signed copy of their new best-selling book, Fleeced, go to dickmorris.com.

again, this is just an article by a guy. its not necessarily fact and its not necessarily fiction. take it for what you will and respond. love to hear the responses.

Last edited by KH817; 01-22-2009 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 01-22-2009, 11:42 PM   #2 (permalink)
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AAAAHHHH!!! It's been 2 days! For the love of all that is good IT'S BEEN TWO DAYS!

People are going to be really disappointed if he doesn't fix/blow up the world by the end of week 3.
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Old 01-23-2009, 12:40 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Default haha

i know right?! no it was just a take on his plans. thought it was definitely possible so i figured id post it and see the reaction to possibility.
Old 01-23-2009, 04:01 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Default ah so true

i cant wait to be like europe, canada and other "socialist based" countries. they have the cutting edge technology, economy, and health care. i might just move there because i know that if i break my leg snowboarding, other than i suck, i will wait in line while other "deserving" people get help before me....it doesnt matter that i worked hard and can afford immediate care. socialism is coming and it will kill the country.

this is happening....laziness is the key!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! dont work and shit will be handed to you

The Downfall of Democracy
Rarely have democracies survived beyond 200 years. Why do democracies fail? Two of the major reasons are: 1) democracies generally progress through an initial period from bondage to spiritual faith escalating to the point where the citizens become totally dependent on the government to where they eventually revert back to bondage, and 2) once the democracy shows signs of prosperity, citizens vote themselves generous bounties from the public treasury. Does this not sound familiar? Is democracy only a temporary and marred refuge until social engineers miraculously discover the ultimate solution?

Democracy, or the form used in the United States and most advanced countries, representative democracy or a republic, seems to be the best method social engineers have concocted to date to afford people an opportunity to have a voice in their government. The world continues to be overrun with dictatorships, socialist governments, a few communist governments, and Islamic theocracies. We can argue the merits of democracy versus the alternatives, but at this point in history, most authorities on the subject recognize that democracy has proven to be the best solution ever tried on the planet. The United States is not the first successful democracy in the world. Over 2,500 years ago, the people of Athens, Greece created a true democratic form of government that lasted for nearly 200 years but was eventually destroyed not by the people but by a military overthrow by a powerful neighbor. On the negative side, they kept slaves in much the same manner as in the days of our fledgling democracy. The most intriguing aspect of the Athenian democracy was that the people voted directly on every issue that affected their lives. Politicians, or so-called representatives of the people, did not exist.

Although the origin of the “Downfall of Democracies” is often attributed to Alexander Tyler, a Scottish history professor who lived in the 1700s, the origin of the material below may be attributed to Alexander Tytler, or even Arnold Toynbee, or Lord Thomas Macaulay. Whoever can lay claim to the study of democracies that had existed until that time had remarkable conclusions. He had this to say about democracy in general, “A democracy is always temporary in nature: it simple cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority will always vote for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, (which is) always followed by a dictatorship.”

Does this sound familiar? With almost one-third of all Americans feeding at the public trough, its only a matter of time before everyone receives some form of benefit and henceforth, the entire country will crash and burn with most likely a military dictatorship filling the void.

The professor went on to say: “The average age of the world’s greatest civilizations from the beginning of history, has been about 200 years. During those 200 years, these nations always progressed through the following sequence:

q From bondage to spiritual faith;
q From spiritual faith to great courage;
q From courage to liberty;
q From liberty to abundance;
q From abundance to complacency;
q From complacency to apathy;
q From apathy to dependence;
q From dependency back into bondage.”

Does this not sound familiar! We’ve gone from being overtaxed slaves of King George of England, to a new republic that accepted any religious faith, to a wonderful new country with a brilliant constitution, to being the richest country in the world, to today over 50% of the voters are apathetic to politics, to where a major portion of Americans are literally demanding government benefits, to eventually losing all of our freedoms (just read some sections of the Patriot Act). Many people now believe that we are now at the “apathy to dependence” phase of the professor’s theory with over 30% of the nation’s population already having reached the “governmental dependency” phase.

Let us not forget that during the 2004 presidential election, the candidates collectively amassed a war chest of over $2 billion. We know that the individuals, carpetbaggers, organizations and corporations don’t make these donations out of the goodness in their hearts. That’s when we, the citizens, get to take it on the chin in the form of government contracts and special legislation/bills that are decreed to reward these people for their excessive contributions.

To ensure our survival, that’s the future for America – eliminate the politicians. Of course I’m advocating a radical concept but it’s time to think outside the box to save the country. With emerging technologies there is realistically no reason why within 10 to 20 years we cannot eliminate the obnoxious power of Congress and place the onus of responsibility back on the people where it belongs, by voting directly on every statewide or nationwide issue. Just watch what happens to taxes and the budget if the people are directly responsible for expenditures. Of course, the professional politicians will fight that prospect with lies and every dirty trick in the book but the American people can prevail.
Downfall of Democracies
Old 01-23-2009, 10:00 AM   #5 (permalink)
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I just have to comment, KH is the cut and paste King! Do you actually have an original thought on your own? Just wondering...

Who cares what anyone on the far right think, hell Rush Limbaugh flat out said he wants Obama to fail...and he's the president of the U.S. during an economic crisis?!? So if he fails, wouldn't the American people fail as well, Rush? Yeah, lots of critical thinking coming from the right, and Obama hasn't even had a real chance to do his job.
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:09 AM   #6 (permalink)
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KH - what you post (whether your words or not) is so far from the truth....

i do not know where to start.

so i won't.
Just coz you don't understand it
Doesn't mean it makes no sense!
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Old 01-23-2009, 10:17 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Too many right wingers giving right wingers like me a bad name... Both Obama and McCain made shifts to the right in their campaign that differed from their traditional past views, Obama's was economic, but sadly McCain's was ideological... and that's where the message as lost. If Obama keeps up with his steady temperament and his value of intellectualism and bi-partisanship (and his healthy dose of Keynes, which, I still feel is the macro policy of choice), even a rightey like me would be happy with is presidency.

(Lol didn't I say I was going to stop discussing politics? No matter.)
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Old 01-23-2009, 11:12 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I'm not reading all that. Too many words not enough titties.

I did read where Snowolf proclaimed to be a proud socialist. No sir, you are a damn pinko commie scumbag! Just admit it

btw, if I wanted to live in a "socialist democracy" I'd fucking move to one. Hence why I stay here. Government at best is a necessary evil and at worst an intolerable one (points if you know who said that w/o using google). Making government bigger is bad. Sure it may start out great but eventually some dickfuck (new word) will come along and use his big ass government to strip every single right you have away.

Think of government as a 6' tall 130lb dude. He starts consuming more to gain weight because at 130lbs he's pretty god damn weak and useless. As he puts on weight he becomes more useful and capable but he doesn't stop. He just keeps getting bigger and bigger. Eventually he's a big fat bastard that's bloated, useless, blocks your path everywhere and smells bad.

I say, starve the fuck.
I have a word limit on my cynicism
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Old 01-23-2009, 01:22 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe View Post
i do not know where to start.

so i won't.
That's almost like averting a Euro-American war right there!
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Old 01-23-2009, 02:10 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Default hmmm

Senior Member see you are wrong and right on rush wanting obama to fail. OF COURSE he wants his POLICIES to fail. he doesnt necessarily want him to fail. his policies DONT work. history is the judge of that. its hasnt and wont work. so rush wants obamas policies to fail, and that means his proposed policies, not necessarily what he WILL do. its already obvious that he knows some bush tactics work....aka GITMO. (he left the door open). Perpetual, you always try to talk down to me, yet you never really say anything...hell i dont either, which is why i said in another post that its easier for me to post what im thinking even though its written by someone else lol. anyways im glad my posts keep getting such a rad response and participation. I didnt say anything except post an article i read. oh and socialism being an economic form. i just dont see any other socialist economy working. and by not working i mean not working since BEFORE our economy screwed up.

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