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Old 01-28-2009, 10:59 AM   #11 (permalink)
slimpanzee
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Oh, one other thing... the whole universal health care thing would help your father as well. Think of all the money he'll save not having to dish out money for health ins. for his employees. Hmmmmmm... somethin' to chew on.
 
Old 01-28-2009, 11:11 AM   #12 (permalink)
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did you say 250,000?
Going down! 250, 200, 150 - do I hear 100? - Joe Biden, White House '08
don't tell me Obama isn't being sneaky

It doesn't matter if joe was in position to buy the company(I don't know if he was or not)

I think it is best for the economy to create insentive to work and earn money, not have it given to you from hard working people.
 
Old 01-28-2009, 11:37 AM   #13 (permalink)
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^^^True, but think of it this way. Even the largest corporations are hurting right now. And some kind of government stimulus needs to happen. A tax break for the middle class will give them extra money to spend... that money goes back to the hands of the businesses, large and small. No tax cut means, that money isn't being spent in the economy. However, in order for the gov to continue with the normal gov spending and then adding to that spending with stimulus spending (like infrastructure building, ect...) they need money. But they just handed out tax cuts... where will they make up that money, well, the ones making millions and billions can afford it. So, tax them.

And you can't use the "Obama can be sneaky" argument. Not till he's actually done it WITHOUT good cause to do so.

I don't believe any money should be just handed to anybody for doing nothing. But a middle class tax cut is not that. You can't get a tax cut without paying taxes, and you're not paying taxes if you're not working.

But, like I said above, I'd LOVE to see power back to small business by the gov investing billions in to small business and an infrastructure that helps spur small business growth and start ups. If you're gonna build some stuff, then make sure it's build by small businesses, and local companies doin' the work for THEIR communities. Not some corporate office working something miles away.
 
Old 01-28-2009, 09:38 PM   #14 (permalink)
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something to chew on huh? universal health care? boy that works, id love our health care system to work as well as the other countries that use it. but on to my thought, this isnt a stimulus package. something like 12 cents on the dollar would go to stimulus, the rest is pork and earmarks. plus it less than a quarter percent would even hit the economy in less than 18 months. yeah i know they cut out the mall's sod and pelosi's moronic abortion money, but theres tons of other pork in there, such as....335 million for std prevention, 4 billion for community organizations(aka ACORN aka O's foot soldiers), 650 million for digital converter boxes, 400 million for NASA climate change research( quite a lot of money for something that is 'scientifically" proven to be true), 1.1 billion to amtrak, 600 million for the feds to by energy efficient cars which doubles what they have in their fleet now, 41 billion in local school districts. this is all a lot of money for pretty much no return and if there is return its in the far future. we need something that will work now.
 
Old 01-28-2009, 09:40 PM   #15 (permalink)
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about the health care, i do not agree with universal. giving things to people inspires no desire. i can see a way to make it more affordable, but people still need to work to get things. start giving handouts, more than is already given, and the country just goes downhill in the way of innovation, motivation, and dreamation....lol made it up
 
Old 01-29-2009, 05:20 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Canada released our federal budget today, and it is a nice balance of stimulus and tax cuts. It's actually one of the best budgets we've seen.
nowhere near enough infrastructure money
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Old 01-29-2009, 08:09 AM   #17 (permalink)
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i just touched base on healthcare to urk slimp, i thought this was about the porkulus package? my numbers are pretty accurate, what do you think about it?
 
Old 01-29-2009, 11:17 AM   #18 (permalink)
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^^^you didn't erk me... people have very different opinions on this, and I can see where you're coming from. I, personally, don't like the idea of EVERYONE getting health care. What I mean by that is, I don't like the lazy people who HAVE the ability to work and don't. Those people shouldn't be entitle. However, those who are out of work, but aren't in that situation by choice, still deserve it, and those working deserve it.

My point was missed however. My point was that small and large businesses will save thousand upon millions of dollars if they don't have to pay health ins for their employees. GM, Ford and Chrysler pay their employees something like 30 bucks an hour... which works out to about 60K a year. But the total employee package works out to something like 140k a year. That's more than double their actual income because of benefits like medical ins. If GM didn't have to pay medical ins, then maybe those savings could be put back into making better cars for a cheaper cost.
 
Old 01-29-2009, 11:58 AM   #19 (permalink)
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based on Snowolf's graph above, my moaning for huge capital projects and infrastructure revamps is spot on.

I m so smahrt.
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Old 01-29-2009, 11:59 AM   #20 (permalink)
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I am for Universal Health care all the way. I see health care in a society as a moral imperative the same way the police, national defense, fire fighting, highway safety and maintenance as well as a host of other "Socialist" programs that keep our society healthy. For the ones who can`t afford to pay, it benefits us a people to pay for their health care in a regulated system. So, philosophically, we will likely never agree and that pretty much ends the conversation.

Now, I also believe a shift toward Single Payer, Universal health care will benefit companies (especially small business) and corporations in the long run. We need to become competitive with other nations and the capital invested by companies to buy their workers decent insurance plans is enormous. This is an expense that nations with some form of national health care do nor shoulder. In the long run this relief will give American companies more financial breathing room to become more competitive.

Once again, you very basic understanding of the health care in Europe and Canada is very limited. The quality of care is excellent and the waiting times are not really that different from our private system. The difference is their people are healthier because they treat illness sooner before it becomes severe. The major difference is people and companies do not face bankruptcy from a medical problem like millions in America have.

No system is perfect and Single Payer will have growing pains, but any "evil" from a socialized plan is vastly over shadowed by the current evils of 50 million uninsured and millions more loosing their jobs and thus their employer provided health care.
What flavor of kool-aid does the Comrade Obama camp serve? Serious question.


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