zakk

strawberry-kiwi here at the Libertarian Party. I have a democratic lobbyist friend, I'll ask him for you

I honestly see issues with both. I'm not a fan of welfare, generally for WIC and food stamps, don't like the ideal of nationalizing any industry, but recognize the issues facing us today and that (tragically) nationalizing the banks might be the only way out of this mess and that health care might be the same.

I'm wise enough to know that I know not.

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-zakk

KH817

that the thread is staying on track. i want to know what people think of the "BIpartisan" "stimulus" package. i threw out accurate numbers with no response from lefties or righties. this is a democratic package. they want the republicans on board so they can share the degradation when it fails. when it fails the dems will go down and lose re-elections and senate seats. hmmm 150 million for honey bees, millions for off-road vehicle trails....i thought it caused global warming. my point is this is SPENDING and no STIMULUS. these spending sections should go through normal legislature procedures and not forced on the american people through a MUST HAVE OR DEATH stimulus package. Seriously....500 to 1000 dollars to illegal immigrants. you cant be serious.

KH817

your deductible was so high because you wanted to pay less monthly. i mean come on man, youre a "professional driver" i know you can pay 80 some bux a month to get that low deductible. thats part of it man, pay 500 for a fucked up ankle while the insurance company covers thousands or you rub some dirt on it and walk it off. you said yourself that you fixed it with a gym membership. maybe you just overreacted to your bruise/sprain.

zakk

I'd have to disagree with you. Money going to WIC, food stamps, unemployment bennies, etc, puts money in the hands of people desperate to spend them.

kickstarting construction compaies has much the same effect as the more you help the lower socio-economic rungs on the ladder, the more those people spend as they are those that have to meet the basic needs.

I'm lower-middle class but with a solid job. any rebate they give me will pay off my wife's student debt. I won't spend a red cent.

tax cuts help some, but not much. my check was $4 more this week, based on 2009 changes to the tax code. Want to know where that $4 will go? Not to burgers.

With my season pass, the only industry I'm stimulating is Costco gas

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-zakk

max_tm

Aha! Now we're seeing eye to eye. Public funding through private contracting. The issue in Canada is that this is really not the norm, (although they do exist and are excellent, for example the Shouldice clinic). That being said, I'd rather our system than your current one, but I think improvements can always be sought, and too many Canadians have become complacent with what we have (it is a big source of national pride, with Tommy Douglas and such), which is IMO still not the best we could get.

As for you saying that fiscal conservatives are more worried about government raping us than private business it's because in perfect competition (yes yes I know, this isn't truly the case,but I think in most things with fairly good information symmetry; healthcare not being one of these things, this holds true) a private business has an incentive not to pillage you for all you've got. Simply put, the government does not have this same incentive. Once your tax freedom day starts getting well into June (which ours does: June 14?) maybe your opinion will change .

KH817

dude all that said, the main point is the insurance offered by your employer. BUT, BUT!, you have the CHOICE to chose to stay with that, knowing good and well that you participate in "extreme" sports and knowing that the plan wasnt that good for your lifestyle. you could have just as easily said you would get your own insurance plan. i got my own insurance plan when i started my landscaping company a few years ago. like i said, 80-90 a month for major accident coverage. i got this because i dont hang out at the dr's office. i dont like doctors. i then changed my plan this last year to a full coverage health savings account. i was responsible for 2000 dollars. i could put money in my account and use it or just pay out of pocket, which is the same thing. i was responsible for up to 2000 in any fees. if and after my fees got above 2000, insurance would cover it. well i broke my femur racing and had to pay like 1800 bux because i had actually went to the dr. that year. the grand total was around 20000. so dont tell me youre stuck with your employers insurance. this is why america is great. we can choose what we want depending on how hard we are willing to work for it. good job blaming it on the big companies who offer you an option to buy. healthcare is not something someone deserves. work for it and you can get it, if not you suck it up. this, "it'll never happen to me" bs is just ignorance. stop buying cable and trade it out for healthcare. im bet a lot of people who dont have it have cool shit somewhere or another that wasnt a necessity. i am in racing, never have i heard of people getting 'dropped' from their insurance. only one person i know, a good friend, has to pay outrageous rates and time increments, and thats because hes ALWAYS getting hurt. Facial reconstruction, blown out knees more than once each, broken bones and all that. so one ankle problem and getting "jacked" around by insurance is bologna.

oh, and i live alone in a condo i bought from money i EARNED working and making a way that fulfills some goals in my life as of now. thats capitalism and america and a democracy.

KH817

rush is very smart. so smart that the freaking president said people shouldnt listen to him. government attacking the public sector. a man just saying thoughts, yes, but mostly facts. you libbys are going nuts about him right now. hes all over the news. lol. somethings working because no rights voted for the porkulus package and about 10 or 12 libs followed suit. focusing on rush just takes your mind off your corrupt party. i mean seriously, ANOTHER one of the presidents appointees was found out to shy away and not pay taxes too! lol good ole tom daschle. ya i know he 'fixed' it before he was officially appointed, just craziness

MunkySpunk

I'd rather see the money go to Govt stim spending, particularly to morally obliged services (housing, food, healthcare, pubic services) and to the development of a green smart grid.

Tax cuts aren't going to bring healthcare to the masses. Half the people who can't afford healthcare would use that tax money on more important things... like food. The other half of the people would go sink the cash into cheap plastic crap at Wal-Mart (send our money to China).

Tax cuts aren't going to do anything except prove that tax cuts don't work. The resources need to be focused towards goals, not scattered like one of Rush's wet Vicoden and Chili-dog farts in the wind. Tax cuts won't see wind-farms built, tax cuts won't get us off foreign oil, and tax cuts won't provide healthcare. Tax cuts give you only poor people with a little more money and rich people with a lot more money with which to design ways to get more money out of the poor.

Rush is a fat, fetid relic of a bygone era that only a few divisionaries, like Palin and her throngs of inbred followers, give credence to. I'm glad he wants to see Obama fail, I'm even happier he was dumb enough to say it out loud, because it demonstrates the myopic 'us vs. them' reality Rush has constructed in his mind. If he was actually a patriot, he wouldn't give a flying fuck how we got out of this mess, because we, as a nation, would be out of it - whatever the path. Failure of the presidency (as Bush has demonstrated) means a failure of the country as a whole, including the rich (as we've seen them come grubbing for more money to lose), as well as the middle class, and the poor. If Rush is so bitter that he'd rather see Obama fail out of spite than see the nation succeed, I truly question his patriotism. It seems he doesn't care about the country's welfare over his own smug sense of misplaced pride.

KH817

when have tax cuts not worked? or that another talking point backed up by no facts?

KH817

snowolf youre such an elitist. using the military and police as a comeback against socialism??? the government is supposed to keep us safe, not tell us what to do, when to do it, how to do it, while all the while bringing the hard workers down to the freeloaders level. its supposed to be the other way, ie capitalis, you silly liberal