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-   -   Tax Cut or Gov Stim Spending? (http://www.snowboardingforum.com/political-wilderness/12323-tax-cut-gov-stim-spending.html)

jedininja 01-27-2009 06:37 PM

Tax Cut or Gov Stim Spending?
 
Would you rather have a cut of what Obama is spending on his stimulus plan, or have him do the stimulus plan?

Does anybody know how much that would be?

Snowstar 01-27-2009 10:51 PM

Canada released our federal budget today, and it is a nice balance of stimulus and tax cuts. It's actually one of the best budgets we've seen.

jedininja 01-28-2009 07:57 AM

Wouldn't tax cuts for big corporations lower prices all around? Because a compedative market would force compedative pricing?
Likewise, Raising taxes for big corps would raise prices, possibly cause layoffs, and decrease growth?
please correct me if I'm wrong.

Obama said that he did not believe that wealth would "trickle down".
Pretty much the quinticental difference between liberals and conservatives

jedininja 01-28-2009 09:42 AM

isn't cbs kinda left wing though?

and where did you get that graph, I'm kinda a "site your sources" guy

max_tm 01-28-2009 10:04 AM

One issue I have with the umbrella term "corporate" tax cuts is that there are a surprising number of small business that are in fact corporations (in fact I'd say most!).
It never really dawned on me until I was arguing (debating?) with my dad about why he'd support a corporate tax cut since it would probably just squeeze him out of his business (I was assuming most small business such as his were some kind of sole proprietorship that didn't benefit) and he looked at me strangely and said "don't you realize that I'm incorporated?" A corporate tax cut CAN (I don't say it does) benefit the middle class because that is exactly what your small business is; a middle class person hiring middle class people. I feel like a lot of people get the feeling that when a corporate tax cut goes out, the execs at IBM are all sitting in a high rise sipping on cognac giggling to themselves, but I'm starting to think that in reality what happens is that the mom and pop store down the corner are relieved that they'll have the ability to pay their employees next week.

jedininja 01-28-2009 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowolf (Post 118530)
The source is listed at the bottom.

my bad.

I'm not going to lie: I'm VERY skeptical when it comes to news sources.

Oh, and no debate the layoffs are real(I'm apart of it), I thought that it was CBS that was blaming it on bush's policies, but it was you.

Doesn't congress have to approve every bill though?/can't it re-vote even if Bush vetos it?
Hasn't the democrats been in power for the last (either 2 or 4) yr.?


I am kinda sickened with how CBS butters everything up when it comes to Obama though. Perhaps it's just me, just as most democrats don't like FOX, but I doubt it.
Media Bias Basics
again, not saying the link is proof, but I agree with it from real-life experiences

every year polls on CBS will say that America is strongly leaning toward the democratic nominee(bandwagon), then will say they are narrowing prior to the election to get people to vote.

jedininja 01-28-2009 10:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by max_tm (Post 118534)
One issue I have with the umbrella term "corporate" tax cuts is that there are a surprising number of small business that are in fact corporations (in fact I'd say most!).
It never really dawned on me until I was arguing (debating?) with my dad about why he'd support a corporate tax cut since it would probably just squeeze him out of his business (I was assuming most small business such as his were some kind of sole proprietorship that didn't benefit) and he looked at me strangely and said "don't you realize that I'm incorporated?" A corporate tax cut CAN (I don't say it does) benefit the middle class because that is exactly what your small business is; a middle class person hiring middle class people. I feel like a lot of people get the feeling that when a corporate tax cut goes out, the execs at IBM are all sitting in a high rise sipping on cognac giggling to themselves, but I'm starting to think that in reality what happens is that the mom and pop store down the corner are relieved that they'll have the ability to pay their employees next week.

My dad is also incorporated even though his staff consists of 3 people most of the year. tax cuts stimulate growth for such companies and make it possible to hire more people, grow, put more money into the private sector etc.....

like I said, I try to get my info from experience as much as possible. (at least I think i said it) lol

slimpanzee 01-28-2009 11:39 AM

From my understanding, the tax cuts are based on earnings. So small business, incorporated or not, are considered "small" depending on the amount of money being made.

Small businesses HAVE to be able to compete. The reason we are where we are is because large corporations get TOO big and TOO powerful. They squeeze out competition, they automate, they have no community loyalty, and the execs at the top, end up forgetting about people and worry about bottom line. You don't see a whole lot of small businessman lobbyists payin' shit tons of cash to congressman trying to get bills passed to benefit they're business. We have a great opportunity right now to re-shape some things. I'd love to see the gov invest MONEY into the small businesses that did shit right over the last 8 years. For example, the car company Zap has been working on a pure electric crossover SUV that gets over 200 miles per charge, goes 155 mph, and goes from 0 to 60 in 4.8 seconds. But to be able to get that car in production, they need money for R&D and to make it affordable to the public rather than a 60,000 price tag. So, instead of throwin' money at Ford, GM or Chrysler, why not throw money at Zap, or Tesla. And not just giving them the money. Buy their cars for government fleets. Jobs lost at GM or Ford would be gained by Zap and Tesla. And maybe for GM, Ford and Chrysler to become a bit more INNOVATIVE, rather than just strong-arming themselves to the top. Reward good deeds, hard work and innovation. That should be what drives the American business. Not large corporations forcing themselves into our lives because they made themselves the ONLY choice.

I'd rather see things like that coming from the gov then just tax cuts, or just bailouts. Build infrastructure. But not just fixing roads. We need a new electrical grid. We need an infrastructure to support electric cars and other alternative fuels. If the gov gets on board, I'm sure you'll see some of those rish dudes jumpin on the band wagon and finding a way to profit buy building their own electric fuel stations and shit like that.

jedininja 01-28-2009 11:44 AM

I'm not sure where you are getting this cut that targets ONLY "big" corps, the reason they look so big is because they already pay so much. I'm talking about general corp tax cuts that target ALL corporations like my dad's.

In this certain scenerio, my dad can place a compedative price, so that is not an issue.
What Wal-Mart is doing it anti-compedative (and I believe Illegal)

But Obama said he planned on RAISING corporate taxes (remember joe the plumber), and raising unemployment benifits.
which pretty much takes my (or my dad's) money and gives it to the people who ARE NOT working for him instead of the people who ARE working and promoting growth.

slimpanzee 01-28-2009 11:58 AM

It's the typical right wing rhetoric by using words like "corporate" tax breaks that is confusing. If you dad is pulling over 250,000 in profit, after paying employees, expenses, and all that, then he's doin ok. Take in mind if he's paying himself a salary, that 250,000 is ON TOP of his salary. And if you're a small business, that makes 250,000 in profit, you might want to think about what's gonna happen if we keep spiraling downward. Your business just might fail. So, since you have the money to spare, a bit of a tax increase isn't going to harm you in the long run, but help you by helping get the economy back on track so that you can go back to normal business operations.

Don't always believe what you hear... even from your father. ;)


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