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Old 02-06-2009, 11:08 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default 598,000 out of work. Maybe they can help replace the sod at the mall

I find it dispicable how there is a huge call to pass this stimulus plan while lawmakers pack it full of their personal agendas and crap. Such as money to refurbish the national mall. And so it looks like it's back to partisan politics already. I'd write more but I'm stuck in class and I think I just got busted. Thoughts?
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Old 02-06-2009, 11:16 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I agree that useless crap MUST be trimmed. However, the more myopic politicians can't seem to look past the first 6 months. There are valid long term investments to be made in the bill that most Repubs and even some Dems are saying are needless.

Stimulating the economy in the short term is very important. What is equally as important is keeping it running in the long term, or we'll be right back where we are now in 30 years.
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Old 02-08-2009, 01:10 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Financial Economics is my second major, all those small "pet projects" that "useless" in the bill are very important for the economy. This stimulus bill is NOT enough or even close enough. Everything in that original bill was neccessary and has been put off for a longtime under the Republican control of congress and the whitehouse. This bill has to be passed, and passed fast before we continue sliding. Obama is throwing the bone to the Republicans who demand for concessions.

It's one thing to spend ourselves to oblivion in unnecessary war, building infrastructure in a country that doesn't even want us to be there, but another thing to spend money on our country in the middle of historic recession.
 
Old 02-08-2009, 07:12 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Obama has got to tell the Republicans to just bugger off. He and the Democrats won. I want them to put this thing up for a vote and just let those ass hats filibuster it. Let it go down on record that every last one of these pigs, voted to try to kill any recovery. After 8 years of the 3 largest tax cuts to wealthy this nation has seen amounting to trillions in added debt to our National Debt, they still think that doing the same thing will suddenly work. Doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result is the classic definition of insanity. Obama extend the hand of bipartisan cooperation and the mad dog Republicans just bit that hand. It is time to marginalize them and get to work. Democrats in congress need to grow some balls and act like they have power and a majority. Their cowardice to stand up to these pigs pisses me off. Pelosi needs to be removed as Speaker and replaced with a Democrat who has a pair.

It is clear that they only want to be obstructionist and see him and his policies falter. What we are seeing from these people is that they are willing to let the entire nation slip into depression just to try to win public opinion against this stimulus. They seem to forget what the exact same thing did for our nation under FDR and the New Deal that got us out of the Depression. The Republicans care far more about trying to win a political point than they do about the actual good of the nation and the American people.
And this is exactly what the Dems have done for the past 8 years. The Repubs have not forgotten it and now it's their turn. Such is the downside to American politics. Only now that the Dems are in control are their people calling for bipartisanship all of a sudden. I wish the two sides could just work together and do what is right for the country instead of their party, but I don't see it happening any time soon and so we all suffer.
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Old 02-08-2009, 07:53 PM   #5 (permalink)
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I have to respectfully disagree with you on this. Since the Republicans have been in control of both houses of congress, they have bullied the Democrats. Squashing bills before they can even get to the floor for debate. The Republicans have been this way long before now, This is not a pay back thing. It is business as usual. Any legislation that a Democrat wanted to bring to the floor for debate, would`nt even be allowed into committee by the Republicans. They have never been interested in any form of bipartisanship.
I will agree with you here the first 4 years of the Bush administration was nothing but Republican agenda much like the first 4 years of the Clinton aministration was for the Dems. Then these were both followed by 4 years of partisan fighting I don't think there was much of anything voted on that wasn't straight down party lines. And so the Clinton adminstration ended on economic downturn much like the Bush administration. It is business like usual but not just for one party this is business as usual for them both. It's time they work both together for the American party and make some compromises to get something done.
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:26 AM   #6 (permalink)
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I'm not against the bill but it definately needs more scrutiny before getting shoved through. Shit like THIS! should not be allowed in.

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One new bureaucracy, the National Coordinator of Health Information Technology, will monitor treatments to make sure your doctor is doing what the federal government deems appropriate and cost effective. The goal is to reduce costs and “guide” your doctor’s decisions
The last person on the planet I want my doctor to take direction from is a government bureaucract. That's why this bill needs to be looked at just a little deeper. Again I'm not against it passing, I'm against it being flown through blindly allowing these pindicks to add anything and everything they want under the guise of "zomg we need teh stimularz!"
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:48 AM   #7 (permalink)
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I'm not against the bill but it definately needs more scrutiny before getting shoved through. Shit like THIS! should not be allowed in.



The last person on the planet I want my doctor to take direction from is a government bureaucract. That's why this bill needs to be looked at just a little deeper. Again I'm not against it passing, I'm against it being flown through blindly allowing these pindicks to add anything and everything they want under the guise of "zomg we need teh stimularz!"
You'd rather have a corporate bureaucrat giving your doctor direction? That's what's going on now. No, really. That IS the state of the industry.

And these three-piece suits who can't even spell 'Health Care' have a vested financial interest in denying your claims. These healthcare organizations aren't benevolent entities looking to treat the sick. They are businesses looking to bring as much money into the door and send as little money out of the door as possible. They profit off of this. There are so many goddamn hands in the honey pot that it's no wonder the industry is failing. Every corporate stiff all the way up the ladder from the operator denying your claim to his boss, to the consortium, to the conglomerate, all the way up to AIG and their golden parachutes takes a cut of your premiums. Every time a health insurance company says, 'OK, we'll pay that.' they lose. There's little to no legitimate profit to be had in healthcare, but that doesn't stop these guys from cutting every corner and shaving every penny they can.

I'd rather have a doctor with an eye for discretion call the shots. Barring that, I'll take a government worker, ultimately answerable to the people, over a corporate stooge, ultimately answerable to his boss who would deny his own grandmother a kidney to save money, any day.

Socialized medicine is the only way to go, but even that has its serious flaws that the canucks don't mention when they are railing on about how the American healthcare system sucks. However, the flaws of commercial healthcare (like half of the coutnry being uninsured) are more severe than the flaws of socialized healthcare (like waiting 6 months to see a doctor who's never seen you before but is supposed to make judgement calls based on your history).

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Old 02-10-2009, 11:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I still fail to see how it belongs in a stimulus bill. That was kinda my point.

And Doctors right now aren't directed in the manner you suggest. Yes many are members of HMOs that set guidelines but it's up to the doc to be a member of that HMO or not. If he or she feels the HMO is not serving the patient's best intrest, they can bail. Setting up a government database to record your every doctor visit over your life span and creating a whole new agency to monitor it and provide direction is not ok in my book. I have a hard time trusting the government with my driving record.
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Old 02-10-2009, 12:40 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You're right. 100%. Especially on the computerized databases... Fully in accord here. Although I'd sooner trust the govt with my records than a company (even tho I'd prefer it if neither had them).

But how does the Doc bailing on an unfavorable HMO help the patient? The only result is that the patients who have the bailed-on HMO can't see that doctor anymore. All HMO's suck. It's just degrees of suckage that's in question.

How does ensuring the health of lower income families not stimulate the economy? I don't speak here as a member of those who need health insurance, I'm as close to an impartial observer as you're going to get. I have a PPO, my insurance is great, but not everyone is lucky enough to have the chance to stay in school for as long as I and earn those nice benefits.

You want people to spend money, invest, have confidence in the finanical system... how do they do that if every last penny goes to the hospital bill? You can extend the unemployment benefits, cut taxes, put rebates on green home improvements... It's all pocket change to the hospital bill for a single broken leg or worse, a stint in the ICU. Maybe two years of chemo, radiation, hospital stays, surgery, doctor visits, and diagnostics to get rid of a tumor.

EDIT: Don't get me wrong. We agree that idiotic crap needs to be cut from the stimulus bill. We just don't agree on what constitutes idiotic crap.

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