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Old 04-18-2009, 05:22 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Arrow Fox News Defends Bush Administrationís Use Of Tortur

Fox News Defends Bush Administration’s Use Of TortureYesterday, the Obama administration released four Bush-era memos that provide legal justifications for the use of torture on al-Qaeda suspects. “We have been through a dark and painful chapter in our history,” President Obama said in a statement on the memos. “The United States is a nation of laws…that is why we have taken steps to ensure that the actions described within [the memos] never take place again."As if on cue, Fox News hosts and personalities attacked Obama for releasing the memos while at the same time, defended the use of torture. “It’s not a dark chapter in our history. It’s a successful one,” Charles Krauthammer proclaimed. Conceding that waterboarding is torture, Krauthammer said that it should be used anyway in the so-called “ticking time-bomb” scenario and against “high-level al-Qaeda.” Many of his Fox colleagues have since piled on:BILL KRISTOL: This is a pander to the left. I think it’s really pathetic for an American president to do that, and to disavow, in effect, the good faith efforts of a previous administration to protect us in ways that I think were entirely appropriate. MEGYN KELLY: Will the release of these documents hurt our troops on the ground now, or could they put our national security in jeopardy? GRETCHEN CARLSON: You don’t go into these techniques just willy-nilly. … There was a reason behind all of this. There was a philosophy in the way that they handled these things.<br style="display:none" gauntlet_tokenizer_reserved=""/><br /><br />The Fox and Friends had fun with the release this morning as well. Steve Doocy claimed that torture “worked” and “saved lives.

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The so-called “ticking time-bomb” scenario Krauthammer cites is a canard. In fact, one former FBI agent who has interrogated terrorists said it has never happened. It’s a “red herring,” he said. “In the real world it doesn’t happen.” And torture doesn’t “protect” anyone, as Kristol claimed.In fact, it has been directly linked to increased casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan, as the interrogator who got Abu Musab al-Zarqawi noted:It’s no exaggeration to say that at least half of our losses and casualties in that country have come at the hands of foreigners who joined the fray because of our program of detainee abuse. The number of U.S. soldiers who have died because of our torture policy will never be definitively known, but it is fair to say that it is close to the number of lives lost on Sept. 11, 2001.Moreover, torture doesn’t “work.” The Washington Post reported that “not a single significant plot was foiled as a result” of the torture of Abu Zubaydah and that any useful information he had “was obtained before waterboarding was introduced.” Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, another detainee known to have been waterboarded, “produced no actionable intelligence,” according to a former CIA official.

I don't see my self as Republican, Democrat or Liberal... But I find it rather humoring how low fox has to go to be anti obama... It makes me wish I didnt have to watch fox at all but the cardinals only play on fox so it looks like im stuck...

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Old 04-18-2009, 08:17 AM   #2 (permalink)
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of course they do. im more republican then not, but i just ignore the bullshit that fox puts on society. the whole production is a waste of life.
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Old 04-18-2009, 08:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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You think it's low for Fox to portray that torture by the bush admin was useful in some way, sadly there are people on this very site that think the same thing. On a side note I don't agree with Obama stating the US has been through "a dark and painful chapter" when the CIA still has secret rendition facilities that employ the techniques Obama abhors. Go Presidential Hypocrisy!!!
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:24 AM   #4 (permalink)
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You do realize that Fox is even more biased than Al-Jazeera but in the opposite direction, right?
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Nothing justifies torture.
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:07 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Your logic is flawed, why does past behaviour automatically predict future behaviour? It doesn't, because as human beings we have the ability to choose. The Bush admin chose to allow torture practices, whether a previous or future admin did/does the same has no bearing on the choices made today.

If you don't think the torture of innocents eventually freed from places like Abu Ghraib or Gitmo has a direct result on public support for the Iraq invasion then I don't think you have any concept of winning 'hearts and minds'. Another reason why the invasion of Iraq is a lost cause.
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Old 04-18-2009, 11:29 AM   #7 (permalink)
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You're saying that because we've done horrible things to POWs in the past, that justifies doing them now? I guess history means nothing if we aren't going to learn from it. The outlook for humanity? Bleak.
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Old 04-18-2009, 12:48 PM   #8 (permalink)
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oh, the days of MPD and his wacky world view. I have to say, I'm a much calmer person not having to read that bullshit every day.

When will you ever learn? the ends do not justify the means, especially when the means you speak of produce nothing but flawed intelligence.
 
Old 04-18-2009, 08:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
You're saying that because we've done horrible things to POWs in the past, that justifies doing them now? I guess history means nothing if we aren't going to learn from it. The outlook for humanity? Bleak.
"Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it" - George Santayana
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Old 04-18-2009, 09:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I personally am fine with torture in the "ticking-time-bomb" scenario. HOWEVER....it is NOT okay for it to be legally allowed. If someone in the military / intelligence /etc believe that this is the case, and torture is the only answer...fine. But they need to go out on a limb and put their own ass on the chopping block. If they are right, and their actions save hundreds / thousands of lives, then I have no doubt Obama will pardon them.
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