Recognition of the Emergent and Symbiotic elements - Page 3 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-08-2009, 10:33 AM   #21 (permalink)
Samyaksambuddhas
 
PaoloSmythe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Only British blaady Columbia!!!
Posts: 4,622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by justdust View Post
Uh, yes it is. I cannot possibly obtain everything I need by myself (that was evident even in the womb)...to even attempt to do so would be to completely squander the efficiencies inherent in our capacity for communal cooperation (limited as it is). Consequently, trade is essential.
There is no co-operation in trade without qualification and thus exclusion. Economic, proximal, ethnic even religious. Trade as it currently stands is prohibited to more than it is available to and that creates scarcity, which dictates prices, which nurtures the 'haves and have nots' scenario. Such is not efficient. Even the warmest efforts in barter are not efficient when compared to the simple exchanged based purely and exclusively on demand.

Quote:
How?
Because a sustainable method of pea farming would be shared and enjoyed. This would be true of any commodity.

Quote:
Contentment = guilt? Are you Catholic?
This was more an offering to springheeljack who suggested that such peacenik ruminations as this concept of (near-)utopia was a consequence of western, bleeding heart, guilt trippers. Catholic or not, if you doubt me, perhaps you could ask him to explain?

Quote:
Actually, I would spend a fair amount of time snowboarding or picking my nose...I can always find something to do other than work for the good of others (this post, for example).
Well there you go. We are constrained by the never end need to pursue paying labour. Let us all go snowboarding. Find ever new and more challenging bits of back country to carve up and introduce other people to such hidden gems, safe in the knowledge that they would reciprocate in kind.

Quote:
And some even more lazy bastard would wait for me to find her, then try to take her away, giving me cause to flick peas at him.
It could be said that a potential mate, who already has a suitor is not as good as one who does not.
With a world to choose from, why would you presume that the unattainable was the only ambition worth being sought?

Quote:
It takes more than a womb to qualify as perfect.
Perhaps. But then a woman with no womb is completely useless (from the intrinsically selfish human perspective) no?
__________________
Just coz you don't understand it
Doesn't mean it makes no sense!
PaoloSmythe is offline  
Old 05-08-2009, 10:54 AM   #22 (permalink)
snaplok
Guest
 
Posts: n/a
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe View Post
Pride does not equate to more successful fecundity though. Remember, what we are discussing, is whether the capacity to be greedy is instinctual, ie genetically derived. The sentiment to suggest greed is good, is that we wish to pass on our genes to the next generation. But pride and egocentricty, be it sourced from pee wee touch downs, a sports car, or breast implants do absolutely nothing to support such a primitive urge to procreate. Apples and orang-utans!



And then what....? Congrats you won the pub quiz. Is this where it ends?

Would there not be greater kudos afforded if such intellectual strength were passed onto other people, thus increasing their intelligence and thus the overall ability of a community; a species?



And that is a bleak tragedy, to which we might all be to blame for?

Despite our ability to converse so eloquently about a train of thought which is completely alien to us, we lack the courage or maybe the simple imagination to do anything, other than envisage our own destruction. We, the products of the monetary system are as doomed to failure as the system itself.

Perhaps if we could spendmore time dreaming and less time working to pay of credit cards, we'd be 'better' off?

Zeitgeist: Addendum

specifically chapter 4 (about 1:32 in) use tips 1 thru to 5
Since I'm on a bus back from Philly and on my blackberry sipping gin and getting slighty toasted, I will offer one rebutal for now because I'm on a bus drinking gin and getting slightly toasted I do not see my or our destruction. I do see people who rather lay down and perish without trying. I am not one.might be upbringing, environment or ideals . But as my dad would say Rather by tried by 12 than carried by 6. Next post went I sober a little lol.
 
Old 05-08-2009, 11:17 AM   #23 (permalink)
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
MunkySpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berkshires
Posts: 3,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe View Post
there is no shortage of pretty girls in this world and judging by the manner in which we raise our young (due to direct genetic consequence,) we tend to commit ourselves to a predominantly monogomous relationship so as to raise the offspring, and so we need only find just one individual.
The fact that there are pretty girls and not pretty girls denotes a perceived inequality not at all based on human society but on instinct. Sure, the definition of 'pretty' will change from society to society, but the fact remains some are prettier than others. Seeking out these as mates is instinct. And how do we win them? Well, THIS society tells us we win them with fast cars and fancy clothes. Other societies say we win them by spotlessly cleaning up a small patch of forest floor in Papua New Guinea and dancing better than the other guy (birds of paradise). Speaking of Papua New Guinea, the human males there also get all dressed up and put on a dance to win females... no violence, no money, but they are still doing something to look better than the next guy. Make no mistake, however, the drive to win them is instinctual.
Quote:
considering the global human population, desirable / adequate mates are not in themselves limited in supply, and so why the need to fight or undermine the attractiveness of a competitor?
Ask the lion, or the ram, or the whale, or the stag, or the rhino, or the wilda-beast... Nobody's telling them they have to compete, there are plenty of female wilda-beasts roaming Africa, yet they do because of instinct. And so do we.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe View Post
but such attributes are false and do not guarantee the successful and complete genetic fitness you are suggesting they exist to provide. afterall a lion's mane is a direct indication of a genetic level of health. a human's wealth, is merely a suggestion of success in an area of human behaviour. it is a product of an environment which we have all been indoctrinated into, believing its at the very heart of our essence. but it is not.
Wealth is a benchmark indicator of an individual's potential for success in the arena of current human society. A bigger and stronger lion makes a better mate in the arena of lion society because the selective pressures favor stronger and bigger. Just like human society has set up its selective pressure to favor those with the wherewithall to obtain fast cars and fancy clothes. It's an artificial selective pressure, but it doesn't make it false. Some selective pressures will always exist, or species never evolve.

The lion's mane is partly genetic, but diet heavily influences the mane (look at the stringy hair of any anorexic for proof of this). The better the diet, the fuller the mane. In the same way, the fitter the human is to live in today's society, the more expensive the clothes and the faster the car. They are visible, semi-quantitative markers for the opposite sex to evaluate and for peers to respect. If it's not Johnny's car that makes him stick out, it's Gronk's smilodon fang hanging around his neck (look at me cave girls, Gronk is a better hunter, mixing my DNA with yours will give you the best shot of preserving your bloodline). Artificial markers? Yes. False markers? Not from a probabilistic standpoint

All I'm arguing is that greed, self-interest, and the need to impress the opposite sex are all by-products of the 'survival of the fittest' instinct. I'll concede that the self-interest for a fast car is nurture and not nature. In the absence of being told what you want is a car, you'd still instinctively seek some measurable attribute to display to the opposite sex to set you apart from the herd.
MunkySpunk is offline  
Old 05-08-2009, 11:45 AM   #24 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
justdust's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Albany
Posts: 494
Blog Entries: 1
Default

Quote:
There is no co-operation in trade without qualification and thus exclusion.
I'm afraid I miss your point here. Of course "qualification" is inherent in the very definition of "trade", as in my offer of peas is qualified by a reciprocal offer of sex, and yes, there are those who will be excluded from that offer (I may be desparate, but do have some minimum standards). But as there are apt to be a handful who are not sufficiently interested in my offer in the first place, I'm don't comprehend the significance you are attaching to the "exclusion"
of any I might not trade with.

Quote:
Trade as it currently stands is prohibited to more than it is available to and that creates scarcity,
nah, you are smarter than that. First, trade may be prohibited to a few, and it may be unavailable to a great many more, but that can be rectified easily enough with existing political systems. More importantly, scarcity is not "created" by the lack of trade. Scarcity exists where people want something but don't have it...trade diminishes scarcity.

Quote:
which dictates prices
,
scarcity does influence price, assuming there is a demand to begin with. To illustrate the point, despite the fact I don't sing in public very often (scarcity), there is has not been much disappointment expressed (lack of demand). Scarcity is simply the product of demand (based on either real or percieved value) and availability.

Quote:
Even the warmest efforts in barter are not efficient when compared to the simple exchanged based purely and exclusively on demand.
What is the mechanism and motivation for the exchange you speak of?


Quote:
Because a sustainable method of pea farming would be shared and enjoyed.
Wait...if we are all pea farming, who is operating the lifts at the mountain? And what on earth would make me enjoy pea farming?

Quote:
This would be true of any commodity.
Ahh...I get it, we all do everything, we all have access to everything so we all want for nothing...this is a great plan! It is, of course, physically impossible, but no plan is perfect.


Quote:
Let us all go snowboarding.
Snowboarding is only for the Chosen.

Quote:
It could be said that a potential mate, who already has a suitor is not as good as one who does not.
That could be said...but people tend to settle for whatever is handy.

Quote:
With a world to choose from, why would you presume that the unattainable was the only ambition worth being sought?
1. I don't have the world to choose from...I am a physical being with physical limitations...I have to make choices...I can't have it all.
2. I don't equate the unattainable with worthy ambition...that is why I'm shooting holes in your pie-in-the-sky premise that money is the root of all evil.

Doing away with the money system will not eliminate or even regulate competition among people. Only the exercise of intellect holds the promise of curbing excess. That is why exercises such as this one, in which ideas are put forth and critiqued are imminently worthwhile.



Quote:
But then a woman with no womb is completely useless (from the intrinsically selfish human perspective) no?
Not touching that one.
justdust is offline  
Old 05-08-2009, 11:48 AM   #25 (permalink)
Samyaksambuddhas
 
PaoloSmythe's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Only British blaady Columbia!!!
Posts: 4,622
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkySpunk View Post
The fact that there are pretty girls and not pretty girls denotes a perceived inequality not at all based on human society but on instinct.
Well I think this is based upon personal preference and such subjectivity should not be applied to all persons, just as more money is promoted as being 'better' than less.

Quote:
THIS society tells us we win them with fast cars and fancy clothes.
And this is the problem, as neither fast cars nor fancy clothes assure you of any of those things you would presume that they do.
It is a fallacy and as such a waste of your time, if what you claim to be over riding instinctual objectives are true.
We have been left to labour under this misinformation, by those who would wish for us to jump thru hoops to provide them with our energies with which they line their pockets. Once upon a time, you wouldn't stand a chance of getting laid if you didn't have a cigarette sophisticatedly hanging from your bottom lip!

Quote:
Speaking of Papua New Guinea, the human males there also get all dressed up and put on a dance to win females... no violence, no money, but they are still doing something to look better than the next guy.
Hhmmmm….. Tis a good example. To appeal to the ladies with plates in their lips, the fellas try to eclipse the attractiveness of any other fella. This competition is derived from the selfish acquisition of a finite resource. Even tho the Guineans manage this without bar brawls and fast cars, this does little to undermine the idea that such things are just how we try to get the hunnies.

And so money, or the conspicuous presence of wealth can suggest to prospective mates, the capacity to provide for them in the western world, just as a jungle geezer's hot stepping skills suggest he is likely to avoid jaguars and catch many a monkey.

This need for financial reassurance tho is a symptom of the monetary system which guarantees such a concern remains at the forefront of people's mind. What criteria of fitness would arise in an environment devoid of a monetary system? Would it be more relevent?

I can concede that as a species, we are prone to competitive urges; I am less convinced tho that such urges are best spent on economic ambition; espcially when looking at the extent to which such ambition can be exploited.
__________________
Just coz you don't understand it
Doesn't mean it makes no sense!
PaoloSmythe is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:45 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums