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post #1 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 04:56 PM
snaplok
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Obama administration trying to block the court-ordered release of images

Report: Iraq abuse photos depict torture, rape - White House- msnbc.com

After reading what has come to light recently, I don't know how the current government can save face. Obama has inherited a mess and now it seems he's making it a whole lot worse.
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post #2 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 07:28 PM
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The entire article makes it seem like this is some new scandal, then you get to the bottom at are greeted with...

"The Telegraph said the photos related to 400 cases of alleged abuse between 2001 and 2005 at Abu Ghraib and six other prisons."

They're just more photos from Abu Ghraib. What else would they contribute if they were released (just more graphic images). Also I can see how this would affect Obama's image, as many would try to play it off that this was happening under his watch, when it's clearly something that happened four years ago (not saying it's not happening now). It seems the logic not to release the photos is to decrease the chances of an event where locals become enraged and attack U.S. troops. I'm all for freedom of information, but releasing this photos at this current time seems pointless.
post #3 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 09:10 PM
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The entire article makes it seem like this is some new scandal, then you get to the bottom at are greeted with...

"The Telegraph said the photos related to 400 cases of alleged abuse between 2001 and 2005 at Abu Ghraib and six other prisons."

They're just more photos from Abu Ghraib. What else would they contribute if they were released (just more graphic images). Also I can see how this would affect Obama's image, as many would try to play it off that this was happening under his watch, when it's clearly something that happened four years ago (not saying it's not happening now). It seems the logic not to release the photos is to decrease the chances of an event where locals become enraged and attack U.S. troops. I'm all for freedom of information, but releasing this photos at this current time seems pointless.
The Republicans seem to be the ones pushing to see the pictures. I guess somehow they are hoping that Americans really do have a short attention span and see Obama as the one controlling this.
post #4 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 09:56 PM
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Why release them? I certainly don't want to see them. We all know horrible stuff happened to the prisoners there. Why not just keep the prosecutions going without putting people's rape photos online? It's not like they are denying that something happened, they just don't want to the photos out there.

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post #5 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-28-2009, 10:05 PM
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Why release them? I certainly don't want to see them. We all know horrible stuff happened to the prisoners there. Why not just keep the prosecutions going without putting people's rape photos online? It's not like they are denying that something happened, they just don't want to the photos out there.
Mostly because they(Republicans) are calling Obama's plan to end government secrecy. For them it's a win win situation. If he does show them then he is putting targets on the armed forces abroad, turning government agencies against him for not backing them up(think CIA, NSA, FBI), and giving the public opinion the idea that HE is responsible. If he doesn't show them then HE and the rest of the democrats have something to hide.
post #6 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 05:06 AM
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as ever i am blighted by being able to see both perspectives. oh me!

i can imagine the republicans would wish to see the foto release, for the upsurge in violence they cynically believe would arise. this might be an accurate prediction. but really, since when was there a need for a pictorial montage before 'haters of america' made and set off more IEDs?

the result of the current decision, is an Obama ('Mr Change') seemingly doing his best to sweep under the rug, the misdeeds of a previous administration. there is no accountability in doing this.

also, when people bitch and complain about a lack of transparency in the run up to and commission of the current 'unrest' and investigation post 'war, Obama can be held up as an example of how information 'should' be surpressed for the sake of the greater good.

in 'our enemies' rage is provoked as they see no justice forthcoming and are left to presume the worst; and in us, we are left with the profound sense of being left in the dark, as we are told to trust the 'ruling elite'.

and then you have the problem of a politicised judiciary.... which i assure you from the UK experience is awash with compromise, corruption and conflict of interest.

sometimes, it is painful to admit to wrong doings. but you have to confess before you atone. no one would consider the Obama to be at fault for that done many years ago; if anyone claims to have committed violence acts because of the release of such images, they would've done so anyway.

release the photos and assure the planet that those who are responsible will be tried in a court of interntional law with complete transparency.

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post #7 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 08:30 AM
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I have no doubt that avoidance of reprisals against our military and other US interests is the motivation for not releasing the photos, but there is another potentially valid justification. The photos were taken by villians to humiliate their victims. Releasing the photographs would do exactly that. It would just be plain wrong to release the photos. The public does not have the right to see everything it may want to see.
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post #8 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 10:20 AM
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So if we DO release the photos, suddenly the soldiers become targets for raping and torturing people.

If we DON'T release them, Obama is hiding something.

This is why I hate talking about politics.

Why not just prosecute those responsible while not making pictures of rape and torture public? I trust that this crap happened because of photos I've seen in the past. I don't really need to see American soldiers crapping on our reputation and more than has already been done.

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post #9 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 10:22 AM
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there is another potentially valid justification. The photos were taken by villians to humiliate their victims.
but this only stands if the current context would allow said villains to realise this humiliation. i do not think this is the case now; in fact, quite the opposite in fact.

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The public does not have the right to see everything it may want to see.
but this situation (as far as i can tell) is not due to a public clamour to be shocked and appauled (aka entertained)... there is a call fof justice and accountability; public scrutiny, as adjudicated by judges, not simon cowell or paula abdul and phone in vote.

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post #10 of 43 (permalink) Old 05-29-2009, 10:27 AM
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So if we DO release the photos, suddenly the soldiers become targets for raping and torturing people.
as if to suggest that they are not already targets?

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If we DON'T release them, Obama is hiding something.
leaving him open to the reasonable suggestion that he is little different to 'more of the same'... he's become a Bush patsy... he has politicised the judiciary.

i find it concerning that a critical and well considered judgement can be overturned. am i really alone in this?

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Why not just prosecute those responsible while not making pictures of rape and torture public?
that is something that should happen AS WELL. but if you wish to suggest that it should happen instead... well that is completely fair enough. more work for those ineffectual judges. but then what if some political entity wishes to overtune any subsequent convictions?

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