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Old 10-06-2009, 01:30 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Why evolution can be taught in schools, but creationism cant.

Evolution is a theory. Creationism is a theory. But why can one theory be taught while the other one cant? There is no proof that we came from a small tiny organism that slowly evolved over time. There is no proof God created all life as we know it. They are both theories. If anything, why do we still teach the big bang theory in school anyways? Scientist believe millions upon millions of years ago their was a tiny little ball, smaller then the period that will end this sentence, heck some scientist conclude that it was something so small, it was almost nothing. While initially, they said it was a huge explosion, they now say it is more of expansion. Still you can't get something from nothing. So this little tiny nothingness created everything. It created the galaxies, universe, the planets, everything. At some point in time, earth was formed. At first (as quoted from high school biology text book) the earth surface was filled with molten lava, there was nothing alive. The earth at some point decided to cool, clouds rolled in and it started to rain, cooling and hardening the earth surface to create a hard rock crust. Now it kept raining and raining and large bodies of water formed which we call oceans. The book goes on to describe this next part the creation of life. When these oceans formed, between all different gasses and components on the surface mixing with this rain it created in laymen terms a "soup." From this soup of different chemicals and gasses, life began. Just like that, it just "began."

While i do believe in creationism (that god created us out of his own image), i do not support it being taught in school, nor do i support evolution being taught in schools. They are both theory's and beliefs, none of which can be proven true. Religion has no right in schools. Evolution is a religion.

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Old 10-06-2009, 02:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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In my opinion, the two can work off each other. Evolution has great evidence to support its claims that life evolved from one common ancestor. What it lacks in evidence how the universe was created. Thats where faith and that stuff comes in. The idea that the universe came from nothing violates the first law of thermodynamics. My reasoning on it is God made the earth and seas etc and the common ancestor. That ancestor then evolved into all the species we know today. The best of both worlds . You can teach evolution in schools because it can be applied to most i guess faiths and has much hard evidence to back up MOST NOT ALL of its claims. Creationism cannot be taught because it is all up to the individuals and has no evidence whatsoever. Its pretty much just a fall back where evolution fails to explain.

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Old 10-06-2009, 04:17 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Evolution does NOT try to explain how life started on this planet, only how different organisms came to exist through adaptation to their environment or natural selection. And there is ample evidence that supports the ideas of organisms evolving over time. And creationism is technically not a theory either. Theories are based on evidence gained through experimentation, and there is zero evidence that life was created by a supernatural entity. Evolution is taught in science classes because it's based on science, things that have been observed and documented. It might not be right but it's the logical conclusion that has been drawn, and science is really more about the process that was used to draw this conclusion. Creationism, in its many forms, is taught in world religion classes and that's where it belongs.

I personally agree with stoepstyle, there is no reason that it couldn't be a divine power that created that first life form and sparked the entire evolution process to create the life we see today. But the fact is that nobody that goes to a public school should be taught how life on this planet started because nobody knows for sure. Just don't confuse evolution with the big bang or any ideas about the non-supernatural origins of that first simple life form (this is called abiogenesis), it really has nothing to do with either of those things.

Abiogenesis - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Old 10-06-2009, 07:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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...nobody that goes to a public school should be taught how life on this planet started because nobody knows for sure. Just don't confuse evolution with the big bang or any ideas about the non-supernatural origins of that first simple life form (this is called abiogenesis), it really has nothing to do with either of those things.
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Old 10-06-2009, 07:55 AM   #5 (permalink)
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So I suppose by that logic we should teach very little in science class, because most of what we know about the world around us is based on scientific theory, not scientific law.

I don't think any sane person can deny that evolution exists in some form. The evidence is pretty clear. The Big Bang theory is a separate entity.

I am not a creationist, but I do think presenting creationism as an alternate theory to evolutionism is a good idea - that way students understand what the debate is all about and can make educated decisions for themselves. I know from my own experience that teaching evolution can be a complete nightmare because of the conservative Christian response to it.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:27 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ATOTony76 View Post
Evolution is a theory. Creationism is a theory. But why can one theory be taught while the other one cant? There is no proof that we came from a small tiny organism that slowly evolved over time. There is no proof God created all life as we know it. They are both theories. If anything, why do we still teach the big bang theory in school anyways? Scientist believe millions upon millions of years ago their was a tiny little ball, smaller then the period that will end this sentence, heck some scientist conclude that it was something so small, it was almost nothing. While initially, they said it was a huge explosion, they now say it is more of expansion. Still you can't get something from nothing. So this little tiny nothingness created everything. It created the galaxies, universe, the planets, everything. At some point in time, earth was formed. At first (as quoted from high school biology text book) the earth surface was filled with molten lava, there was nothing alive. The earth at some point decided to cool, clouds rolled in and it started to rain, cooling and hardening the earth surface to create a hard rock crust. Now it kept raining and raining and large bodies of water formed which we call oceans. The book goes on to describe this next part the creation of life. When these oceans formed, between all different gasses and components on the surface mixing with this rain it created in laymen terms a "soup." From this soup of different chemicals and gasses, life began. Just like that, it just "began."

While i do believe in creationism (that god created us out of his own image), i do not support it being taught in school, nor do i support evolution being taught in schools. They are both theory's and beliefs, none of which can be proven true. Religion has no right in schools. Evolution is a religion.

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You amuse me in your perfect stereotype fitting tony. One, there is evidence for evolution, so you're wrong about that. Two, the main thing that that christians always fail to realize is that if you teach the christian creation story, you have to teach at least every major religion's creation story. yep, they have them too. I would completely agree with that happening, because our country is completely retarded when it comes to other religions.

Evolution is not a religion.

Last edited by snowjeeper; 10-06-2009 at 08:33 AM.
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Old 10-06-2009, 08:41 AM   #7 (permalink)
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If you want to teach creationism in school, let me teach evolution in church.

"Emergence" is your god, creationists, and it doesn't need to be divine, or even conscious.

EDIT: Creationism is NOT, I repeat, NOT a theory. There are formal parameters that must be met for the label of 'theory' and creationism does NOT meet these.

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Old 10-06-2009, 09:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I agree with everything you said, but I wanted to touch on this point a little and see what you think...

Okay, I agree with this, but i don`t think that science class is the best place to do this. Honestly, what I would like to see in school along with "social studies" and later in current events/ world history, is basic theology. Not to promote any religion, but rather a very brief education about the worlds leading religions and their beliefs and customs. I think if Americans as a population had a little better education and a better understanding of the the world`s religions, we might have a lot better foreign policy in America and more religious tolerance. As it stands in this country right now, religious tolerance means evangelical Christian.

Every religion has their own creation myth and as such, it should be taught in this environment, not put up next to scientific theory. Let the individual draw their own conclusions, but make sure they understand what the scientific theories are.
I just think that the creationism debate is so closely linked to the theory of evolution, that it should be presented in the same forum. I'm not saying that much time should be spent on it, just enough so that students understand that a very tense debate does exist and that they understand the basis for the debate. Our ability to teach evolution is being challenged in many public schools across the south and in other parts of the country. No other creation beliefs challenge the theory to that extent, therefore they don't have the same importance in a science classroom. I am an atheist, so my viewpoints are not motivated by religious morals or anything like that.

Then again, that could get really ugly really fast. This summer I facilitated a symposium (smart kids camp) for high school students. One of the sessions was on how biology affects our happiness and whether we can actually control our happiness. A girl in that class just kept bringing the debate back to religion and completely derailed her discussion group because she would not allow the discussion to evolve past her point of view. Word is she did the same in all of her sessions - like she was on a personal mission to educate the masses. Very frustrating and possibly very destructive behavior.

I agree that our country needs to work on tolerance for other cultures and religions. Absolutely.
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Old 10-06-2009, 09:09 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I just think that the creationism debate is so closely linked to the theory of evolution, that it should be presented in the same forum.
Only because creationists insist it is closely linked. It's circular logic.

Science does not view it as linked at all, and we are talking science class here.

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No other creation beliefs challenge the theory to that extent, therefore they don't have the same importance in a science classroom.
The extent to which it 'challenges' evolution is a poor standard to judge relevance. Pastafarianism challenges evolution as well, and by your standards we should thus include it in science classes.

I can make my own view on origins by this afternoon and have it challenge evolution on all levels. Would you thus suggest it be included in science classes?

Creationism is not science and has no place in science class. It is also relevant to only a narrow spectrum of religions, and therefore has no place in a secular education without being accompanied by the creation myths of ALL religions.
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Old 10-06-2009, 10:05 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I believe in small scale evolution, the need to change based upon your environment. I do think the big bang theory is a big key in evolution. For some reason you get something from nothing. This is the same for evolution. All of a sudden, we went from no life, to life. How? Who knows. Even scientist cannot recreate this. Now, lets get this strait, life began in the ocean, then all of a sudden, went to land..... ?

Give this guy a listen. 100 reason why evolution is stupid
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