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post #1 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 03:48 AM Thread Starter
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Senators Appear to Have Deal for Health Care Reform

and the public option isn't dead, either.

Democrats Agree To Tentatively Trade Opt-Out For Trigger, Medicare Buy In, And More | TPMDC

I think we all knew that the public option needed to be altered in order to get it to pass. I think this is it.. we need to get over HCR and move on.
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post #2 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-09-2009, 06:21 AM
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You need HCR to have HCR was the issue.

We've gotten to this point because there is something wrong with the system. Changing nothing and calling it reform is just that, changing nothing.

I support the trigger if nothing else. It forces the insurance companies to stop dicking around with the people they claim to be covering or there WILL be a public option. Without said clause putting the thumb screws on them, the insurance companies are pretty much just bound by the honor system to reform. And how honorable are most mega companies anyway?

Thus, I see a public option is inevitable. The trigger just delays it.

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

10/11 - 24, Smote on Feb 13
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post #3 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-10-2009, 07:24 PM
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I concede If the end result helps to insure everyone regardless of their economic status. Everyone should have access to quality health care.

As an aside/rant, we should do away with the insurance companies (EVIL) in their entirety, and if as a tax payer I am required to pay for health care and pay taxes for health care, I wish to do so without sacrificing my ability to choose. If I am forced to pay for it I still believe we should all have the right to choose what is best for ourselves. I just do not like the idea of allowing the government to make decisions for me that impede upon my individual rights. Here's the problem with all of it as explained by economist Vernon L. Smith in a Wall Street Journal article: "A is the customer, B is the service provider. B tells A what service he should buy. Then a third party pays for it from a common pool of funds. This problem has no economic solution. We have simply disconnected supply from demand by taking the price to be paid directly by the customer out of the equation." Insurance companies don't DO anything and they don't OWN anything, their just pimps.

In the private sector, having a personal stake in our health care would cause the industry to become competitive in terms of cost and quality of care. We should have access to price discovery in order to make better choices for ourselves. The issue is that greed of the health care insurance companies and lack of adequate pricing information sharing on the median costs of services, has allowed the "insurance" companies and providers to continue to increase costs and provide even less service. Right now, having insurance coverage, (I would surmise that even with universal health care) does not necessarily equate to being covered. Health “insurance” is basically a way to prepay for your care. We pay into it, even when we don’t need it, for the assurance that it will be there when we do. When it is actually time to submit claim forms to actually allot some of the money we have already paid into our health care, it turns out so many things are “not covered”. What the hell am I paying for? And if the insurance companies are only paying a certain portion and providers are all charging different amounts, I want to know how much does the shit really cost?

I think there is a way more efficient way to go about ensuring that everyone has quality health care and none of them are on the table. Here's what I think: Private sector: Instead of choosing our insurance provider for us, money deducted from our paychecks for “insurance” would be deposited into a tax-free Health Care Account, therefore allowing us to choose which health care provider we see fit and have control over the costs and quality of care. Public sector: The government would deposit the funds into health care accounts for all those who need it (and yes, this will clearly come out of taxes), but still allow each individual the right to chose their provider.

I absolutely believe in this country full of wealth and prosperity, there is no reason why everyone should not be able to receive adequate health care, and especially not for their economic status. I do not like taxes and do not like the government redistributing wealth, but as a choice, there are 2 things I do not mind paying a little extra for, health care and education, everyone should have access to these two fundamentals. I'm just not so sure the government is going to do an adequate job allotting the funds.

Last edited by dharmashred; 12-11-2009 at 05:01 AM.
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post #4 of 7 (permalink) Old 12-11-2009, 06:47 PM
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WEll not really.
THe insurance crime co. are going to get 40 mil of new very healthy 20 to 45 customers. And you won't get into medicare unless you're really poor. O if you're unemployed and bethween 20 and 45 ( most likely) you HAVE to get insured anyway.
It simply sucks.
WE are at the merchy of PhARMA and all the other bloodsucking fucking corporations. Plain ansd simple.
The political game is to decide WHO ELSE gets to eat THEIR cake.
What change?

Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
At first, I was outraged that the public option was dropped. But then after looking at it the public option we were left with was crap and did`nt really kick in for years. While I think "medicare for all" is the right way to go to move toward real single payer like the rest of the planet enjoys, this is a good start.

By dropping it to age 55, it covers a lot of people who can`t get insurance due to health issues and pre existing conditions. It kicks in this year so the truly needy of health care get covered quickly and the remainder left to private insurance are generally a healthier pool of people which should keep premiums for all lower (barring the usual corporate greed).

So, I am generally happy with this as a first step and while I have a lot of things I am dissapointed with President Obama and the Democrats in congress, the reality is we would`nt even be having this conversation had McSame and Failin been elected.

Change is too damn slow in this country, but at least we are making some progress in the right direction. Now we need to keep up the pressure so that we don`t "get over HCR and move on" we are just starting down the road and have a long way to go to get to where we as a nation need to be. It would at least be nice to be equal with Mexico on health care.....
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