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Old 03-08-2010, 01:55 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Default Just so it's clear

Just making it clear that not all the uber-conservatives live in the good ol' US of A. Found this on a political forum...

From A Brit ...

This is a great thread.

I can't give answers which precisely match the various contexts raised here .. as I come from a different Society altogether. But I'll do my best to follow what's above as a guideline of sorts ....

General description: I'm staunchly Conservative, though more in the Margaret Thatcher mould than any other (nearest equivalent is Ronald Reagan).

I want Socialism defeated -- utterly. My idea of a human experience greatly enhanced would be to see it expunged from the world .. reviled much as that variant, National Socialism (Nazism) is right now.

I want terrorism wiped out. I don't much care whether it's a matter of terrorists laying down arms after being demoralised, or, their outright extermination (or a mixture of both). Regardless .. the world should be too toxic a place for terrorism to ever thrive. A terrorist is a subhuman enemy to be totally defeated, no quarter given. Forget 'terrorist human rights' .. they can have none, as they fail to be human !!

Following FC's list ..

CIVIL LIBERTIES - these to a limited extent must be malleable in wartime conditions .. and the War on Terror IS A WAR. I'm all in favour of fighting the civil liberties cause in peacetime. But, after 9/11, this is NOT peacetime ! If I were an American, I believe I'd be pro-Patriot Act and the actions taken in pursuance of it.

ABORTION - is murder. No exceptions. The robbing of a life's chance to BE a life !!

GAY RIGHTS - these defy Christianity as I comprehend all it should be. a counter-question might be .. what comprises the concept of perversion ? There are limits beyond which humanity should not stray.

SECULARISM - a basically Socialist tool for wiping out religions, as I see it .. the more it succeeds, the more it debases the authority of any faith. Enter the false god of Socialism to take its place !! Secularism in terms of tolerating minorities .. OK .. IF seen, and treated, as minority faiths. Secularism, however, is a state acting against faiths. To be opposed as the Socialist tool it is.

MARRIAGE - either this is a one man, one woman union, or, it's a perversion of the whole meaning and point of marriage .. and a perversion of God's will .. if subverted to mean something else. Besides .. children thrive in a stable environment as offered by marriage. The alternative leads to needless suffering.

AFFIRMATIVE ACTION - This is not a British term. Thoughts therefore not offered.

GUN RIGHTS - Brits have no such 'rights' as you'd understand them in this context. I BELIEVE WE SHOULD HAVE.

DEATH PENALTY - with one reservation, I'm for it (we don't have it at all in the UK). The reservation is that to sentence someone to death who was innocent of the crime involved makes the death penalty itself a crime in those instances. That said .. societies need that level of deterrence .. my own included. They are better off with it, than without it.

CENSORSHIP - basically in favour of it. Though it can be taken too far .. it's still an important tool for maintaining societal standards. And in cases where National Security is involved, it shouldn't be opposed.

FLAG BURNING - the UK's thinking on this is not that of an American's. Besides caring about the fumes burning one would produce, nobody here would care about such a thing.

HATE CRIMES - a means of shaping a citizen's very thoughts, along the lines of Orwell's '1984'. We do have hate crimes legislated for here .. the result is a tipping towards the Government's preferred status quo. To be opposed as both a tactic and as meaningful legislation as strongly as possible.

HATE SPEECH - ditto FC's comment. More of the same.

SMOKING - basic freedoms to smoke wherever you choose, with the exceptions of highly enclosed spaces such as the London Underground ('Tube') or in places such as nurseries.

ALCOHOL CONSUMPTION - in the UK, consumption is way out of control. Strong laws to curb its consumption .. and banning of its consumption in public places, outside of pubs, clubs and one's own home. Strict licensing laws, restricting pub opening hours (our Government took the opposite approach, and drunkenness has increased substantially)

EUTHANASIA - too easily abused. I can see how some cases of where it's being sought can tug at the heart strings. But ultimately, life is God-given. Euthanasia shouldn't be allowed.

DRUGS - we are FAR too liberal in the UK on drug-taking. And to grade drugs according to deleterious effect is plain stupid .. because it doesn't have to follow that we know all there is to know about long-term effects of all drugs.

Drug-pushing thrives in a liberal environment, wrecking lives. I'd introduce a charge of murder for any pusher dealing in drugs, and caught at it, where those drugs have any capacity to kill.

GAMBLING - here, I'd have some measure of State control, I'm afraid .. because of the addictive and destructive potential of it.

PROSTITUTION - do all possible to prohibit (though, could it ever be wiped out entirely ?)

EMBRYONIC STEM CELL RESEARCH - I can't better FC's comment. Absolutely agree .. BAN.

IMMIGRATION - in the UK, though our Government refuse to admit it, we've basically had open borders for years, with illegals rarely being caught. I'd close borders entirely for a number of years, giving a breathing-space to catch any illegals already here. After a period, I'd reopen borders but with FAR more stringent controls .. including a pledge of the would-be immigrant to value British values and to attempt to blend with society (instead of the exact opposite, as is true right now). Evidence of opposition within our Society to be punishable by deportation without appeal.

LANGUAGE - I'm reminded of a BBC site which said that London schools have to cope in total with THREE HUNDRED languages. This is crazy !!! A far greater insistance on an English-only environment, with alternatives as a main language BANNED in schools. Even Muslim schools !

TAXES - flat rate up to 40,000 a year. Far less punishing taxes for the richer people, as they are in many cases the captains of industry. Socialism hates wealth, and loves to tax the rich. I'm the opposite.

BAILOUTS - excuses for Socialist-style grabs of banks and associated institutions. A severe curbing on them in future at absolute minimum .. to be avoided if at all possible.

FREE TRADE - the mark of a civilised society. The EU's restrictiveness created a power-bloc .. we see the result .. !!

SPENDING - top priority, State security ... police, armed forces. Followed by civil infrastructure .. but in a way that doesn't stifle private competitiveness. Mrs Thatcher's revolutionary de-nationalisation of our railways, water, gas, electricity providers .. was BRILLIANT ...

SOCIAL SECURITY - curb as much as possible (though it's too entrenched here to get rid of entirely). Increase the work ethic, have harsh penalties for scrounging. This, here, would decimate its drain on the public purse and make the concept ultimately unpopular.

SPACE PROGRAM - we don't really have one. I regret any curbs the Americans put on theirs, though I well understand arguments insisting upon it. You should revive it as soon as possible in my view.

WELFARE - synonymous with social security. Too often abused, needs to be curbed.

HEALTHCARE. I'd reduce the British NHS to a tenth of its size (if not more) and introduce the American system of insurance as the prime provider. [.. though I daresay any politician trying that one would see street riots ..]

EDUCATION - we are dominated by our State Comprehensive system. I'd dismantle it .. and reverse the Socialist imperative of trying to wipe out Grammar Schools. Our State system is a sausage-machine, ripe for propagandist exploitation.

MINIMUM WAGE - I must say that, here, it does work. That astonished me when it was introduced .. I thought it would be ruinous and I initially hated the idea. It proved not to be ruinous, though. I'm more pro-this than I was.

REGULATION - only in exceptional circumstances. The War on Terror may qualify.

INFRASTRUCTURE - Government monitoring to a limited degree. FAR less real input than at present.

ENERGY POLICY - give the 'green' option to people, but absolutely do NOT legislate to force it down everybody's throat !!!! Far less direct State control. Far more said to offer both sides of the approaches involved.

THE UN - good for a laugh these days. If you have the right sort of sense of humour ..

IRAQ, AFGHANISTAN - do all possible to win .. AND .. to expand operations to take the fight to the enemy's very source. I believe that not only insufficient is done to fight insurgency/terrorism, but that we're in a race to stop far deadlier weapons getting in terrorist hands.

IRAN - tolerance, diplomacy .. these were never going to work, and now it's been proved. Attack immediately, the objective being a comparable neutralisation both of the regime there and its very capacity to act militarily to ANY extent.

N Korea - enough is enough. The longer they're left alone, the more they'll refine their capabilities. Issue one ultimatum, verifiable if agreed to. If not agreed .. attack ASAP.

ISRAEL - support to the hilt.

MILITARY INVOLVEMENT - always give a perceived enemy the chance to back down .. then a limited time to do so. Evidence this isn't going to happen invites countering action.

MILITARY BUDGET - should be a much-favoured part of a country's finances, and VERY important in US terms. Always seek to strengthen, in case the fruits of that are needed.

NAFTA .. (??) ...
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Old 03-08-2010, 07:50 AM   #2 (permalink)
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You find them in every country, theres just way more in yours
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:24 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by nzboardlife View Post
You find them in every country, theres just way more in yours
It's true! In other nations the crazies get a laugh and a pat on the shoulder. In our nation, they make up half our constituency so they sometimes manage to run our country.
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Old 03-08-2010, 01:39 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
It's true! In other nations the crazies get a laugh and a pat on the shoulder. In our nation, they make up half our constituency so they sometimes manage to "run" our country.
Fixed it for ya.
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Old 03-08-2010, 05:45 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Just so it's clear.....you're an idiot.

General description: I support what is right, whether it's conservative or liberal.


isn't a bad thing, it works to a point, just like every other style of government. Don't be stupid and hateful because you can only see it's faults.


is a bad thing. No doubt. But you have to admit, it makes a point heard. (I don't support terrorism, just incase you mistaken it as so)

Civil Liberties-

our ancestors died for this right, and now people like you support an act that allows the damned government to spy on its own citizens. Freaking government is paranoid about the people that supposedly control them.


It depends....when does life start? As soon as you're conceived, I disagree. I wish you were a women who had to carry the baby, you'd understand then, and only then how horrible it could possibly be that you the father of the child could bail at any second without a worry in the world. Then throw whatever plans you had for the future out the window 'cause now you have a kid. And if you decide to give it up for adoption, you have to deal with the whole abandoning the kid to the state or another family, and the consequences that comes afterwards because of the decision. This is a very sensible subject, I'm not sure that you've considered all sides to it. Don't judge so harshly.


One. Don't talk about Christianity when all these MARRIED Conservative republicans have no idea what morals are, when they're running around having sex with interns and people from Chili. Being gay doesn't make you a pervert, I don't know why it would, how does that logic work? Your going to fault someone for loving a certain sex rather than the other. Why? That sounds awfully ignorant and hateful.

And to add to that, read this: http://gayrights.change.org/blog/vie...arn_from_jesus


I won't comment on this one, because I don't know much on the topic. I'll let someone else take it.


Cause children today are in stable environment with all these divorced parents, or abusive, or alcoholic, or somehow parentally-handicapped parents. And being in a gay household will somehow traumatize them...exactly how is that? What exactly is so bad about seeing two guys, or two girls, together?

And to abolition any more talk about gay marriage or gay rights, or anything to do with gay peeps...read this:
(and actually ready it)
Gay Marriage: The Arguments and the Motives


Again, I can't speak on this subject becasue I don't know that much.


You're right. Gun rights should be had for those who don't have 'em. With strict laws.


The legal system has failed many times before, and I would not dare institute the death penalty in fear of taking an innocent life. It's truly not worth it. I wouldn't want you falsely accused for a crime then thrown on death row. I'll take those child murderers and watch them rot in prison any day over you dying.


As David Myatt put it:

Censorship is wrong for one simple reason: because those in authority who censor things are treating people like children. Real freedom means letting individuals judge things for themselves. Real freedom means allowing individuals to exercise judgment. Censorship, of whatever kind and from whatever motive, is a denial of freedom because real freedom is not about personal choice or even about individual "rights" - it is about being able to develope personal character and being able to make one's own judgement. To be able to judge a thing, it is necessary have factual, accurate knowledge about that thing and this factual, unbiased knowledge is the first thing that suffers when there is any form of censorship.

For children though, I agree with it to a certain point.

This guy said it well also:
Why Censorship is wrong

It's part of having the right to express oneself even if no one cares. It's still good to know that you have the option to do so, even if you're not going to anyways. It's a right, like civil liberties.


Yeah. Um. I didn't quite understand your position on this so.....
But they're wrong either way.


um...freedom of speech. Like it or not. Just because I don't agree with what the person is saying doesn't mean I'm going to take away they're right to say it. AND again, I don't quite understand your stand on this....seeing as I don't know who "FC" is.


Smoke your head off, I don't care, BUT don't you dare smoke in a public area. I'm going to have to breathe that same air that someone just intoxicated with their smoke. So will that kid that's walking down the street. Smoke as long as you're not going to harm someone.


Yeah, once more. So long as you aren't hurting anyone, go ahead. If restrictions are needed to stop the out of control consuption, them put 'em in place so long as the laws are right.


People have a right to chose whether or not they want to die. It's their life so fuck off, you can't control them. But you're right, it's waaaaayyyyy too easily abused. I don't have a solution to that one.


I'm personally against harmful, or addictive ones. And drugs have cost too many people their family and/or friends. But I don't think I have enough knowledge on the subject to a serious-committed stand. So .

And for anyone caught selling drugs to anyone under 18, then maybe get some kind of murder charge or serious time. Over 18, again


Yeah. I agree with you.


Again. I agree with you.


MunkySpunk can seriously tear you apart on this one and I'd really like to see him debate it.

But to give it a go, stem cell research will get you out of a wheel chair if you ever happen to land in on because of snowboarding. It will give someone back their eye sight, or it will help someone get back their face after sustaining 3rd degree burns. (cloning is wrong, I agree, if that's what you're saying) It is definitely a good thing.

I don't know much on this subject either so.....


Again. ^^^^

But I remember someone a while back made a good point as to why having many languages is a good thing. I just can't remember what it was.


Someone else can take these ones. I'm don't know how to approach these subjects.


You're right. Too often abused, needs to be fixed.


Let's put it like this. I don't want to go bankrupt because I broke my arm doing a 180 off a 10ft kicker. Screw that. And I want it covered and not screwed over if I'm paying for it. Socialized health-care works really well for Hawaii and Canada, why not the rest of us obese Americans? God knows we need it.


um....yeah, we need a better system, and higher standards. Like the French. Freaking Europeans are wicked smart....and not gullible.



If you don't watch people closely, they'll try to get away with what they can. That's been proven with 2 yr olds and it doesn't stop at adolescence. Break some bones and put some laws in place so people don't screw others over. Make 'em understand.


Yeah maybe. But then, now we have to deal with global warming.


Tell me why we're even there. We killed a whole bunch of people. Check. The US is in debt. Check. Oil Companies are making a bundle. Check. And I still don't know why we're fighting these people.

N Korea-

Just stop. Really. N. Korea doesn't do good by a lot of their citizens, I'll give you that. But they sure as hell aren't as crazy as the US and Britan make 'em out to be.

if you're talking nukes well then, if the US has 'em, why should N. Korea not be allowed to have them. So far, it's the US that is the hazard, not N.Korea.

I'd really like to know how the hell your brain came to some of the conclusions that it did....

..........and why it makes up half of the constituency in the US.

Perhaps the low education standards???
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:15 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Just to be clear (I know, I already said that) this post is not my own. I found, copied, and pasted it here for your amusement. As far as I'm concerned this dude is a nutjob, but I'm not a big fan of debating politics as I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject. It's something I'm working on.
Old 03-08-2010, 09:22 PM   #7 (permalink)
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you meant "ruin our country"

Originally Posted by MunkySpunk View Post
Fixed it for ya.
Originally Posted by Flick Montana View Post
It's true! In other nations the crazies get a laugh and a pat on the shoulder. In our nation, they make up half our constituency so they sometimes manage to run our country.
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Old 03-08-2010, 09:56 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by TheseAreTheDayz View Post
Just to be clear (I know, I already said that) this post is not my own. I found, copied, and pasted it here for your amusement. As far as I'm concerned this dude is a nutjob, but I'm not a big fan of debating politics as I'm not that knowledgeable on the subject. It's something I'm working on.

You never stated that in your first post. So my apologies.
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Old 03-08-2010, 11:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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It's all good...
Old 03-08-2010, 11:19 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ah. To revive this hour old post. I actually couldn't put the original post to your face. I didn't take you for one who would stand by some of these things....you have more of a liberal persona about you.
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