welcome to 2 years of nothing getting done - Page 5 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-08-2010, 08:01 PM   #41 (permalink)
Member
 
tAo77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
I do not fully agree with that. Granted, there are a few Democrats who hold some radical ideas on some issues, but I do not see the Democratic party as having moved to the left or holding radical left wing ideas. If anything, the Republican party has radically shifted to the right and the Democratic party has moved to the center. They are no longer an opposition party.

The rhetoric and propaganda over the last 30 years has shifted the entire country way right of center and a lot farther to the right of where we have been for 200 years. This creates the illusion of extreme polarity. Today's Democratic party is about where the Republican party was before Reagan and today's Republican party is out in crazy land; resembling a weird mix of Plutocracy and Fascism.

If view America from an international point of view, we are very right wing and pretty fucking scary!
And I completely disagree with that. We are absolutely shifting to the left. State ownership of industry; auto industry, mortgage industry, banking industry, an attempt at government controlled health care, just to name the obvious few. The government is the fastest growing job sector right now. The left is pushing farther toward a communist ideal than ever before, not saying the American people are going to let that happen, but there is an undeniable shift in the party leadership. Just as there is a shift by the right leadership. Generally Americans who subscribe to their respective parties don't move as far over as the leadership. Our issue lies with reining in our parties leaders, giving them a reality check on what we want. I may not completely agree with what the tea partiers do but their message seems to be getting across to their leaders. Eg. House R are now starting a battle to end earmarks completely. Good idea but they, R leadership, seem to be listening.
__________________
Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.
tAo77 is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 08:16 PM   #42 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
kysnowboarder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 329
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tAo77 View Post
And I completely disagree with that. We are absolutely shifting to the left. State ownership of industry; auto industry, mortgage industry, banking industry, an attempt at government controlled health care, just to name the obvious few. The government is the fastest growing job sector right now. The left is pushing farther toward a communist ideal than ever before, not saying the American people are going to let that happen, but there is an undeniable shift in the party leadership. Just as there is a shift by the right leadership. Generally Americans who subscribe to their respective parties don't move as far over as the leadership. Our issue lies with reining in our parties leaders, giving them a reality check on what we want. I may not completely agree with what the tea partiers do but their message seems to be getting across to their leaders. Eg. House R are now starting a battle to end earmarks completely. Good idea but they, R leadership, seem to be listening.
Remeber who started the take over of private companies, it was not the democrats. Hopefully it it will be temporary to get us through tough times, of course I understand that is often the excuse to pass over radical changes that are bad for the many and good for the rich powerful few.

My whole issue is that you can't blame just one party, I see my party (the democrats) as a big part of the problem to. They defiantly do things to help their rich friends as well.

I am frustrated with the whole system, and the person that promised to change the system has not done so, there has not been one bill introduced to change how things are done in Washington. No campaign reform, no reform to the benefits politicians receive, no reform to break up the good ol boy network (the I will vote for your bill if you vote for my bill) the deals with the lobbiest, from my perspective it has been business as usual in Washington. I expected Obama and the democrats to change the system, not just simply work with in. They had control of both houses and the presidency, there was no reason they couldn't have gotten some changes made to the system. What happened? Maybe this was unrealistic expectation.

We can never move forward until we change the system and make it work for the people it is suppose serve instead of it working for the people who serve in it...
kysnowboarder is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 10:01 PM   #43 (permalink)
Member
 
tAo77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 61
Default

First of all I never asserted that we are living under a communist government. I was simply stating if communism is the far left, by moving left we are closer to communism than ever before.

Fact:
June 1st 2009 GM filed for Bankruptcy and the CEO was replaced by a government approved CEO with President Obama saying the nationalization was temporary and that they are acting as reluctant shareholders because that is the only way to help GM succeed. Our government also invested 50 billion thus becoming a 60% owner.

Fact:
Citigroup, which is the world's largest financial services network, took 25 billion in government tax dollars giving the US government 36% equity of common shares. It is correct that this took place during President Bush's 2nd term which was led by a democratic house and senate.

Fact:
The government takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. By placing them into a conservatorship they have taken a step to one of the most sweeping government interventions in private financial markets in decades, and one that could turn into the biggest and costliest government bailout ever of private companies.

Fact:
Obama has said that he would favor a British-style "single payer" system in which the government owns the hospitals and the doctors are salaried but that he recognizes that such a shift would be too disruptive to the health-care industry. His Primary goal, right now, is to extend formal health insurance to those low-income individuals who are currently uninsured despite the nearly $300-billion-a-year Medicaid program. Doing so the Obama way would cost more than $1 trillion over the next 10 years. Can't say thats government run health care, but a STARTING point of 1 trillion is no small amount for taxpayers to invest.

I know these are all single events, but it's a slippery slope. By setting a precedent of government "bailouts" we are set up for many future state run "private" companies.

I have absolutely no doubt that one could find aussies that are very upset with the current affairs of their government, it's inevitable.

I am not one of our countries problems, I am a realist that sees our government spending us into oblivion. With a national debt of over 13 trillion dollars our children's children will still be paying back. There has to be a point where we say no more.

And I absolutely abhore Glen Beck, Rush Limbaugh ( spelling) and any of the talking heads. They are "entertainers" first, and informational last. But if I'm parroting them I guess they might be smarter than I thought.

I feel the problem in our country lies with citizens that are willing to completely trust our elected officials to use and spend taxpayers dollars in wasteful and unneeded ways.
__________________
Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.
tAo77 is offline  
Old 11-08-2010, 10:58 PM   #44 (permalink)
Member
 
tAo77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Okay, I am glad to see you have done your own research and are not what I feared you to be; another right wing zombie.....

I strongly disagree with most of your conclusions but respect the fact that you have thought behind them. I have some comment to make about your points but I am actually dring while posting....

I'll tackle some key points when I get home from work.....

Be safe as posting, texting, surfing whatever while driving is dangerous! Wouldn't want to lose a debate partner.

I know we disagree politically, but there is more to life than politics, namely SNOWBOARDING!
__________________
Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.
tAo77 is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 06:46 AM   #45 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
kysnowboarder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Louisville KY
Posts: 329
Default

I notice the pie chart for spending is just for discretionary spending. Entitlements such as social security, medicare (the one the feds fund) and other entitlements take up the largest part of the budget and these are things that the govt can't really control after all they are entitlements. I fear extending health care to everyone in the country would create a new large entitlement for a service that cost are already sky rocketing. I will admit I have great fear about this, and was relieved when the bill did not provide universal coverage.

None of the ways they purposed to pay for it seem like they would match cost increases, so this would have been an entitlement we couldn't afford. Being someone who did not benefit from the bush tax cuts I can't really afford tax increase...
kysnowboarder is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 07:29 AM   #46 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: WI
Posts: 1,922
Default

your costs are increasing because of the bush tax cuts, i hope you realize that.
snowjeeper is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 05:19 PM   #47 (permalink)
Member
 
tAo77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 61
Default

Good points on all accounts. We could go back and forth forever, but I don't feel either of us would budge. I admit to a certain amount of paranoia and distrust. Living in the 28% tax bracket and paying around 30k per year in misspent and wasted tax money will put just about anyone there. I am no republican, make no mistake, but I do feel that a strong homeland defense and much, much, less pork are of paramount importance. To me the problem still remains with both parties being to extreme. With the dollar depreciating and China downgrading our credit rating, a longer term recession may be on the horizon. Overspending has been our governments achilles heel for far too long, its time to cap spending and let our economy right itself.
__________________
Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.
tAo77 is offline  
Old 11-09-2010, 05:30 PM   #48 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Shocktroop531's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: park city , Utah
Posts: 500
Default

man. look at the chunk that goes to the pentagon. then look at the parts like health , job training, and education. as far as I'm concerned the Education part and the pentagon part should be flipped. could you imagine the good we could be doing for ourselves if that was true? the military is so bloated and such a fucking waste. spending all this money so we can maintain a worldwide empire that the people don't want. we just want to live our lives.
Shocktroop531 is offline  
Old 11-10-2010, 08:26 PM   #49 (permalink)
Member
 
tAo77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
Single Payer Universal health care is the way to go. It works very well in every country that has it and eventually America is going to have to adopt it if we want to be competitive on the world economic market. The burden of health care coverage is crippling American industry to compete against out European and Asian counterparts who all have socialized medicine.

Here is a web site that you might find interesting. I suspect there will be some economic figures that will surprise you....

Medicare for All: Home
This is what we would be in for...

CBC News - Health - Wait times for surgery, medical treatments at all-time high: report

Last year I had hand surgery, wait time, 2 days. Also, I had a CT scan, wait time 6 days.
__________________
Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.
tAo77 is offline  
Old 11-11-2010, 04:18 PM   #50 (permalink)
Member
 
tAo77's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: MN
Posts: 61
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snowolf View Post
No system is perfect and I agree that those figures are not acceptable. keep in mind however, that those figures are based on selections of worst case scenarios and they do not represent the reality for all Canadians. The media in any country likes sensationalism and figures like these get ratings. For every media story you can produce that shows the "horrors of socialized medicine". I can counter with one that shows how overwhelimngly happy with the system Canadians are.

It may interest you to know that I worked in Canada for one of their largest bulk commodity trucking companies; L.E. Matchet Trucking out of Saskatoon, Sa. As such, I had a Canadian health card and I personally never experienced these issues, not did any of my coworkers or folks I interacted with. I will take the word of every day Canadians over any news story you care to post.

In addition, these figures relay the stats of those with no options other than the base health care. You do know I hope that in Canada, Britain and Australia, the people do have the option to buy private health insurance and can utilize private medical care givers right? Another thing to consider is these systems, you are really dealing with prototypes. We can learn from their shortcomings and avoid their pitfalls when we shift to a single payer system.

Now, to counter your argument, look at the bad side of our system where we have thousands of people die needlessly due to not being able to afford the health care that would save their lives. Also consider how many Americans lose their life savings, homes and retirements due to a medical emergency, People in Canad and elsewhere do not have to ever face this. Given the choice between "two evils" I will take the 18 week wait over losing my house....

On top of that, countries like Australia (which I want to immigrate to) admit their problems and actually take action to solve them unlike American politicians who give lip service to the people while taking bribes from insurance companies and drug manufacturers. Personally, I would rather deal with a country like Australia who openly discusses problems and takes action to solve them.


If you doubt that things there are not better than here, I suggest you tune into their local media and get a feel for the culture...


Homepage | Classic Hits 101.7
Yes I was aware of the private options in Canada. I was of the understanding that the private coverage is only viable in "niche" areas though... plastic surgery, work related injuries, private rooms... and that all "core" care like doc and hospital visits are subject to the national care. I clould use some more schooling..

I agree that our system is TERRIBLE! We absolutely need an overhaul and yes there are far too many politicians that are getting "kickbacks" from those special interest groups. That is one of my major issues with national health care. Look at the way these politicians self-serve now, now imagine them in charge of the health care you receive. I just don't have any confidence that they can get it right. There are many systems in the world better than ours, no denying, but I think with our current system of bloated government greed we have a long, long way to go to get anywhere close. I am no expert but there has to be a better way then entrusting all of our health needs to "elected" officials. I for one want to play a major role in the needs of myself and my family.
__________________
Getting an inch of snow is like winning 10 cents in the lottery.
tAo77 is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:29 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums