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-   -   please enlighten me - the republicans want to undo obama's major achievements? (http://www.snowboardingforum.com/political-wilderness/35359-please-enlighten-me-republicans-want-undo.html)

elstinky 01-05-2011 12:36 PM

please enlighten me - the republicans want to undo obama's major achievements?
 
Just saw this on tv. The reporter said the democrates, who just got a majority of votes, are planing to cut in healthcare and money for extra jobs. Do I have to believe this? If so, it is just me or are the republicans retarded? Seriously, in the rest of the civilized world healthcare for everyone is a pretty basic right, finally the US starts making some progress on that area and now this comes to an end?

KIRKRIDER 01-05-2011 12:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elstinky (Post 353774)
Just saw this on tv. The reporter said the democrates, who just got a majority of votes, are planing to cut in healthcare and money for extra jobs. Do I have to believe this? If so, it is just me or are the republicans retarded? Seriously, in the rest of the civilized world healthcare for everyone is a pretty basic right, finally the US starts making some progress on that area and now this comes to an end?

This should help you put Republicans..and 40% of Americans in the right prospective:

40% Of Americans, Majority Of Republicans, Reject Evolution

Still surprised?

StarCommand 01-05-2011 01:07 PM

There are issues with the health care bill. My uncle is a Republican, or so he thinks, and he loves to debate with me because he think I love President Obama like a majority of America loves Oprah. I voted for President Obama, but that doesn't mean I want all up ons.

A couple months ago we got into it on the phone because my uncle's friend was trying to start an argument with me on Facebook and kept implying that I was just some silly youth. I hate fat, white, Republicans...

Anyway, I got a good perspective of why he didn't like the health care bill, and it made a lot of sense. He's pretty middle-of-the-road, so his arguments are generally valid and rooted in the betterment of the people, unlike a lot of Republicans who are greedy fuckers and just want to mess with President Obama because he's black and they can't just come right out and say that they're racist.

My uncle feels as if health care should be provided, but that there should be no insurance companies. There might be a PBS Frontline episode about this. I remember watching something, or reading something. Basically, the insurance companies need to make a buck in this deal, so that's why there's all this mandatory health care with penalties for those that don't jump on board crap. I don't like that either. My uncle feels as though you should be able to go get health care, and the bill goes to the government, and they pay it. No questions.

What's happening now, is the government is backing the insurance companies, and requiring you to have insurance. The funding shouldn't be going there. The insurance companies are what are keeping the health care industry fucked. You can't build a public service on a platform of profit and expect it to serve the people in the best way possible.

I would argue that the health care bill wasn't as major an achievement as it may be perceived to be. It is a step in the right direction, and it's more than anyone before has done, but I don't think it is going to get the job done in the long run without a lot of reform. Unfortunately, I don't think President Obama will have the time in office to see that through, and the Republican that takes over will toss that out the window the first day in office.

I'm still wondering where that education reform is...

elstinky 01-05-2011 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pawlo (Post 353779)
This should help you put Republicans..and 40% of Americans in the right prospective:

40% Of Americans, Majority Of Republicans, Reject Evolution

Still surprised?

less about the original matter, even more in general.
My WTF-feeling on humanity in general and the US in specific increases day by day.
Luckily I only seem to visit forums and know Americans that are not part of that 40%. Makes me wonder where those people wander around though.

Flick Montana 01-05-2011 02:26 PM

In order to understand our government, you must understand one simple principle: the two sides never agree.

Oh, sure, they'll say they want to hold hands and skip and make American better, but it's all a lie. If the Democrats pass a law that gives every kid in America a teddy bear, Republicans will call it unconstitutional. If Republicans pass a law that gives everyone in America a dollar, Democrats will contest that the rich don't deserve that dollar.

No matter how stupid or frivolous a bill is, the government will find a way to stretch out passing it for 2 years, mire it down with addendums, and eventually just reverse it anyways.

Gotta love America.

KIRKRIDER 01-05-2011 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarCommand (Post 353789)
There are issues with the health care bill. My uncle is a Republican, or so he thinks, and he loves to debate with me because he think I love President Obama like a majority of America loves Oprah. I voted for President Obama, but that doesn't mean I want all up ons.

A couple months ago we got into it on the phone because my uncle's friend was trying to start an argument with me on Facebook and kept implying that I was just some silly youth. I hate fat, white, Republicans...

Anyway, I got a good perspective of why he didn't like the health care bill, and it made a lot of sense. He's pretty middle-of-the-road, so his arguments are generally valid and rooted in the betterment of the people, unlike a lot of Republicans who are greedy fuckers and just want to mess with President Obama because he's black and they can't just come right out and say that they're racist.

My uncle feels as if health care should be provided, but that there should be no insurance companies. There might be a PBS Frontline episode about this. I remember watching something, or reading something. Basically, the insurance companies need to make a buck in this deal, so that's why there's all this mandatory health care with penalties for those that don't jump on board crap. I don't like that either. My uncle feels as though you should be able to go get health care, and the bill goes to the government, and they pay it. No questions.

What's happening now, is the government is backing the insurance companies, and requiring you to have insurance. The funding shouldn't be going there. The insurance companies are what are keeping the health care industry fucked. You can't build a public service on a platform of profit and expect it to serve the people in the best way possible.

I would argue that the health care bill wasn't as major an achievement as it may be perceived to be. It is a step in the right direction, and it's more than anyone before has done, but I don't think it is going to get the job done in the long run without a lot of reform. Unfortunately, I don't think President Obama will have the time in office to see that through, and the Republican that takes over will toss that out the window the first day in office.

I'm still wondering where that education reform is...


That is because the big Pharma lobby has too much influence in US politics..as any other Lobby.
This is a country designed for corporations, that lets them make their own laws and put their men in key places, like the supreme court, see the "citizen United" law.

The most amazing thing to me, is that most of repulicans I met, are working class people...that in every other country on Earth would never dream of defending any other than other working class families.
here isntead they line up with whoever responds to their brainwash bulletpoints: Abortion, God, and gays. Points masterfully owned by...

kraig4422 01-05-2011 02:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flick Montana (Post 353831)
In order to understand our government, you must understand one simple principle: the two sides never agree.

Oh, sure, they'll say they want to hold hands and skip and make American better, but it's all a lie. If the Democrats pass a law that gives every kid in America a teddy bear, Republicans will call it unconstitutional. If Republicans pass a law that gives everyone in America a dollar, Democrats will contest that the rich don't deserve that dollar.

No matter how stupid or frivolous a bill is, the government will find a way to stretch out passing it for 2 years, mire it down with addendums, and eventually just reverse it anyways.

Gotta love America.

Agreed, both are two sides of the same coin. Really no difference between the two. I want a Pro Gun, Anti Drug war, Middle Class loving, Anti war-empire building isolationist. What's wrong with wanting to take care of Americans but still not taking crap from anyone? Also keep your dirty hands off my weed and money

Shocktroop531 01-05-2011 03:48 PM

its not just healthcare. the republicans would like to repeal every bit of progress made in the last 130 years. Their ideal America was the gilded age of the 1870's. When there were no such pesky things like regulations to prevent corporations from killing people and there was also no such thing as the middle class. Only the people who owned the factories, and the people who worked in them for crumbs.

HoboMaster 01-05-2011 04:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StarCommand (Post 353789)
There are issues with the health care bill. My uncle is a Republican, or so he thinks, and he loves to debate with me because he think I love President Obama like a majority of America loves Oprah. I voted for President Obama, but that doesn't mean I want all up ons.

A couple months ago we got into it on the phone because my uncle's friend was trying to start an argument with me on Facebook and kept implying that I was just some silly youth. I hate fat, white, Republicans...

Anyway, I got a good perspective of why he didn't like the health care bill, and it made a lot of sense. He's pretty middle-of-the-road, so his arguments are generally valid and rooted in the betterment of the people, unlike a lot of Republicans who are greedy fuckers and just want to mess with President Obama because he's black and they can't just come right out and say that they're racist.

My uncle feels as if health care should be provided, but that there should be no insurance companies. There might be a PBS Frontline episode about this. I remember watching something, or reading something. Basically, the insurance companies need to make a buck in this deal, so that's why there's all this mandatory health care with penalties for those that don't jump on board crap. I don't like that either. My uncle feels as though you should be able to go get health care, and the bill goes to the government, and they pay it. No questions.

What's happening now, is the government is backing the insurance companies, and requiring you to have insurance. The funding shouldn't be going there. The insurance companies are what are keeping the health care industry fucked. You can't build a public service on a platform of profit and expect it to serve the people in the best way possible.

I would argue that the health care bill wasn't as major an achievement as it may be perceived to be. It is a step in the right direction, and it's more than anyone before has done, but I don't think it is going to get the job done in the long run without a lot of reform. Unfortunately, I don't think President Obama will have the time in office to see that through, and the Republican that takes over will toss that out the window the first day in office.

I'm still wondering where that education reform is...

You have to understand that health insurance companies are fucking huge, have tons of influence, and employ a lot of people. In order to get the ideal that your talking about, which is honestly the best choice for the people, you would basically have to pass a law which would abolish privatized health insurance. That means all those companies would have to be disbanded because they would by law have no market and could not make revenue.

You can't do that the way our economic system is set up, so the next best thing is to pass huge regulations on the privatized industries to reduce prices to the point where the companies are no longer making a profit and can provide affordable care. But if they aren't making a profit, they are non-profit organizations and in our system of capitalism, if your not going to make a profit there is no reason to do business.

Insurance companies realize this so they will not let it happen, because as soon as some sort of universal healthcare gets passed, it's going to hurt the insurance companies' profits no matter what.

In order to get universal healthcare, you would need to essentially change our economic system, because right now it is so loose that companies can do whatever they want with no legal or governmental obligations. They have the power to change whatever rules do get passed to re-benefit themselves.

Highly regulated Capitalism is what we should be shooting for, but unfortunetly it's been turning into a "Free-for-All" system since the 1970's when Reagan started getting in bed with corporations.

KIRKRIDER 01-05-2011 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shocktroop531 (Post 353892)
its not just healthcare. the republicans would like to repeal every bit of progress made in the last 130 years. Their ideal America was the gilded age of the 1870's. When there were no such pesky things like regulations to prevent corporations from killing people and there was also no such thing as the middle class. Only the people who owned the factories, and the people who worked in them for crumbs.

DO you listen to Mike Malloy by any chance? ;) Agree with you. Regulations or Unions...to fight back...


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