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Old 01-10-2011, 11:45 AM   #11 (permalink)
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He simply said that it is the current political mindset to inspire anger and vitriol against the other party. It is no longer a discussion by opponents, but a battle by enemies which has caused so many people to feel such contempt for their political opponents.
That's exactly why I feel that the two party system is a plague to our country -- all the two party system ensures is that politicians have jobs. There is no effort from either side to do what is best for the people of this country. The left focuses on keeping the left in power to ensure that next term, the left have jobs. They blow the people they need to blow and jerk off those they need to jerk off in order to ensure they last another term in whatever political seat they find themselves. The right focuses on keeping the right in power to ensure that next term, the right have jobs. They blow the people they need to blow and jerk off those they need to jerk off in order to ensure they last another term in whatever political seat they find themselves.

When one side is in 'power', the other side does everything in their own power to stop the reigning side from doing anything. When the tables are flipped, the same situation happens. There's no effort to save the country, only to save themselves.

I also believe that the two party system does nothing but ENSURE that nothing gets done. Why? Because when nothing gets done (due to all the in-fighting), the politicians have something to 'do' next term. When it doesn't get done THAT term because of the other side, we'll 'get to it' the term after that.

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While this individual was clearly troubled, could there be much doubt that he was spurred on by a political process driven by such animosity and outright hatred?
I still don't know -- from reports I read, he was deranged and upset that she ignored his question in 2007. He's been stewing on the fact that his question was ignored for 3 years...is that because of politics? I don't honestly know -- like I said earlier, I tend to think this guy was a bomb waiting to go off, regardless of the current political mess.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:54 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I liken it to the same cause and effect situation that violent video games and movies and rap music cause people to become serial killers, rapists, and murderers. Can it happen? Sure -- but would that person be a psychopath whether they watched Wile-E. Coyote receive a hammer to the head or watched Cookie Monster sing about cookies? I'd say probably. I watched violent movies as a kid. I've read a Glen Beck book. I was spanked as a child. I've never offed a member of congress and never will.

And I have no problem with discussions -- it's the reason I come here. The people are (for the most part) intelligent and the posts are thought-provoking. I guess this subject just sort of 'sickened' me a bit from both sides of the media -- instead of well-wishes for the ones lost or injured, everyone jumps to arms to blame the other side. I just think this guy would have snapped whether Nailin' Palin (in honor of your porn reference ) put targets on a map, listened to N.W.A or had a mother who loved him. I just tend to think 'crazy' is to blame here, not God, a tea-partier, President Obama, or even that talking baby on the E*Trade commercials. I just feel that too much blame is put on outside sources -- a serial killer was spanked as a child. A rapist played Grand Theft Auto when he was younger. So what? Odds are good they were nuckin' futs to begin with.

And as for me being a right-win apologist, I'm hurt by that statement I despise both parties and feel that the two party system is a disease to our country.
good point but there is an obvious disconnect between video games + music and real life...the extremo right wing nut jobs that get air time on fox news though is a different story. they harp on emotions and lies to mislead the public and anger them about real life every day issues...far from a video game or music

oo and btw if the two party system is a disease to our country...do you have an alternative means for effectively running a democracy?
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:57 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I liken it to the same cause and effect situation that violent video games and movies and rap music cause people to become serial killers, rapists, and murderers. Can it happen? Sure -- but would that person be a psychopath whether they watched Wile-E. Coyote receive a hammer to the head or watched Cookie Monster sing about cookies? I'd say probably. I watched violent movies as a kid. I've read a Glen Beck book. I was spanked as a child. I've never offed a member of congress and never will.
I agree that none of that is going to turn a sane person into a killer. You have to start out with a tendency to be a nutter. But for someone who is on the edge, it may be enough to push them over. I don't mean spanking -- I think that's just an assanine overgeneralization by people who have an axe to grind -- but a nutjob who sees all these party X people jawing about how the only good pary Y person is a dead one, let's put them in our sights, they should just leave the country, etc etc etc -- is going to think that this is his chance for a little recognition and approval. Look guys, I did what you asked! Aren't I great? Approval now, please.

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sides of the media -- instead of well-wishes for the ones lost or injured, everyone jumps to arms to blame the other side. I just think this guy would have snapped whether Nailin' Palin (in honor of your porn reference ) put
saw plenty of well-wishes and repudiation of the violence by both sides. Except the extremists, everyone seems to think this was a Bad Thing (tm). Frankly, even if no causal connection is ever established, I think it'd be a Good Thing if this event made everyone tone it down a little. As some pundit rightly said, when you establish an environment where discussion is minimized or suppressed, violence inevitably takes over.

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And as for me being a right-win apologist, I'm hurt by that statement I despise both parties and feel that the two party system is a disease to our country.
Which is why I was very careful to only say that's what your post sounded like. I can't take a stance like yours on the American system, not being American, but in BC we have a de facto two-party system and it sucks as well.
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Old 01-10-2011, 11:58 AM   #14 (permalink)
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oo and btw if the two party system is a disease to our country...do you have an alternative means for effectively running a democracy?
Um, a more-than-two-party system? It's still democratic. We have that federally in Canada, and it works just fine.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:04 PM   #15 (permalink)
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The left focuses on keeping the left in power to ensure that next term, the left have jobs. They blow the people they need to blow and jerk off those they need to jerk off in order to ensure they last another term in whatever political seat they find themselves. The right focuses on keeping the right in power to ensure that next term, the right have jobs. They blow the people they need to blow and jerk off those they need to jerk off in order to ensure they last another term in whatever political seat they find themselves.
Yeah, the problem with a two-party system is that election-by-elimination works. With 3 or more, you have to start sniping at multiple opponents and if you don't have anything positive to contribute it shows more. And if you get too over the top, multiple opponents will gang up on you. It just makes extreme positions a little more difficult to maintain.
Also, with a 2-party system, one party always gets a majority and can claim a mandate. With 3 or more, you can get a minority govt which clearly does NOT have a mandate and therefore had better tread carefully.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:07 PM   #16 (permalink)
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good point but there is an obvious disconnect between video games + music and real life...the extremo right wing nut jobs that get air time on fox news though is a different story. they harp on emotions and lies to mislead the public and anger them about real life every day issues...far from a video game or music

oo and btw if the two party system is a disease to our country...do you have an alternative means for effectively running a democracy?
I don't see a vast difference between Tupac putting lyrics about the injustices towards minorities in his music and your talking heads in the media (I say media and not Fox News because guess what? They've all got an agenda and they're all talking out of their asses to pander to one side or the other) talking about current issues that could incite anger.

Both should be viewed as entertainment purposes only -- the normal folks will hear Tupac for what he is: an entertainer. The normal folks will view news story X from news station Y for what it is: a biased (be it one way or the other) view on a news story. The common factor is that the normal folks wont go kill a cop or a congressman because of what they heard. The whacko might do just that, regardless of what he heard.

And as for an alternative means for running a democracy, I'd instantly do away with career politicians. There would be a 2 year limit (no re-entry in the future) on all publicly appointed positions. The pay would mirror that of the collective average income of the country. The benefits and pay would be completed eradicated upon you reaching your 2 year term limit. That would, in essence, clean up our government. You wouldn't have fame or money whores in there -- you'd have people who wanted to actually make a change. No one wants to take a pay cut for a short-term job -- the only people you'd have in there would be the ones who actually had an idea and a desire to help the country. The 2 year term limit would prevent anyone from having total control and wrecking things, yet it's just long enough to allow them to attempt a change. Simple and full of holes, I'm positive of that -- but I feel it would be a good start to eradicating the filth that we currently have in all political corners.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:24 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I agree that none of that is going to turn a sane person into a killer. You have to start out with a tendency to be a nutter. But for someone who is on the edge, it may be enough to push them over. I don't mean spanking -- I think that's just an assanine overgeneralization by people who have an axe to grind -- but a nutjob who sees all these party X people jawing about how the only good pary Y person is a dead one, let's put them in our sights, they should just leave the country, etc etc etc -- is going to think that this is his chance for a little recognition and approval. Look guys, I did what you asked! Aren't I great? Approval now, please.
Yeah I can see what you're talking about -- I just find it hard to stay in tune with because I've seen those same statements, viewed those same cross-hairs, and still haven't once cared about shaking the hand of my congressman, let alone being violent towards them. While music X, movie Y, news station Q, and all the other outside influences may indeed be the straw that broke the camel's back, I still just think more responsibility needs to be put on the actual nut job.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:28 PM   #18 (permalink)
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"Don't retreat - reload!!" and cross-hairs on her district/name, assault rifles at peaceful political gatherings, "Kill him!!" shouted in reference to Obama at McCain's campaign stops, as well as Angle's "Second amendment remedies" advice to her masses surely had nothing to do with it.
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Old 01-10-2011, 12:58 PM   #19 (permalink)
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"Don't retreat - reload!!" and cross-hairs on her district/name, assault rifles at peaceful political gatherings, "Kill him!!" shouted in reference to Obama at McCain's campaign stops, as well as Angle's "Second amendment remedies" advice to her masses surely had nothing to do with it.
Like I said, it may be the straw that broke the camel's back -- but if it wasn't a cross-hair, would it have been a movie? A song lyric? His neighbor when he was 12? At some point we need to stop pointing fingers at everyone but the culprit. We could force the media to be silent, force all talk to stop, and you'd still have people who kill. I'm not willing to take away people's rights to say/write what they want to 'protect' these nut jobs from hearing something that could set them off. Would I be happier if the rhetoric was more civil? Sure -- but once you start mandating how spoken/written words are utilized, you run into much bigger troubles. I tend to believe most people saw the targets and never once thought about actually killing those people.

And to satiate my own curiosity, what makes a rifle an 'assault' rifle? And how does bringing one to a peaceful political gathering all of a sudden make it a study of chaos? I'm a licensed concealed carrier and I've never once walked into somewhere and had the once peaceful setting explode into a war-zone. I've also been in a public meeting where rifles (were they 'assault' rifles?) were present and that didn't explode into a western-style shootout either. Most people who visibly carry a gun (be it a rifle or a hand-gun) into a public place LEGALLY tend to know the most about said weapon and show it the utmost respect in terms of safety and legality.
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Old 01-10-2011, 01:50 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Um, a more-than-two-party system? It's still democratic. We have that federally in Canada, and it works just fine.
there is no law against a 3rd or more parties from coming to power...they simply don't get any clout here in the U.S. because they haven't been able to effectively distance themselves from the ideologies of liberals and conservatives well enough

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I don't see a vast difference between Tupac putting lyrics about the injustices towards minorities in his music and your talking heads in the media (I say media and not Fox News because guess what? They've all got an agenda and they're all talking out of their asses to pander to one side or the other) talking about current issues that could incite anger.

Both should be viewed as entertainment purposes only -- the normal folks will hear Tupac for what he is: an entertainer. The normal folks will view news story X from news station Y for what it is: a biased (be it one way or the other) view on a news story. The common factor is that the normal folks wont go kill a cop or a congressman because of what they heard. The whacko might do just that, regardless of what he heard.

And as for an alternative means for running a democracy, I'd instantly do away with career politicians. There would be a 2 year limit (no re-entry in the future) on all publicly appointed positions. The pay would mirror that of the collective average income of the country. The benefits and pay would be completed eradicated upon you reaching your 2 year term limit. That would, in essence, clean up our government. You wouldn't have fame or money whores in there -- you'd have people who wanted to actually make a change. No one wants to take a pay cut for a short-term job -- the only people you'd have in there would be the ones who actually had an idea and a desire to help the country. The 2 year term limit would prevent anyone from having total control and wrecking things, yet it's just long enough to allow them to attempt a change. Simple and full of holes, I'm positive of that -- but I feel it would be a good start to eradicating the filth that we currently have in all political corners.
I see your point because the media isn't news anymore but simply entertainment (even though Fox is way worse than the others)...the problem is the deception and the ignorance of your average american. they DO believe that it is still real factual news and many people don't even acknowledge or realize the the bias (they cater to the less intelligent by using emotions and fear mongering on a regular basis)...I don't think it is the same as Tupac because he was simply poetically describing things through music that he had seen and been through in his life (and he certainly wasn't on national tv running a 24 hour continuous "news" cycle inciting fear among his listeners)...I still believe even the ignorant and less intelligent can make the disconnect between music + video games and real life long before they would between "news" and real life

as for your 2 year limit and drastic pay cuts for politicians...I would say that it would help very little for keeping corruption and filth out of politics...these big wigs get their pockets lined more from kick backs and voting in favor of big corporations (hell bush even got to start a pointless war after 9/11 to line his and cheneys pockets with halliburton)...I dont see a 2 year limit and multiple parties in power being a solution...I believe that as long as sensational extreme "news" is on the air, things won't get much better...the 2 party system has worked effectively in the past as long as we don't let the extremes control the system

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