Five dead, twelve injured in Tucson attack. - Page 3 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 01-10-2011, 12:58 PM   #21 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East Coast
Posts: 156
Default

Friends tell of Ariz. suspect's anger, paranoia - U.S. news - Crime & courts - msnbc.com

That article paints him as a delusional psychopath, not a tea-party supporter (although some of you would equate one to the other )
Biggs is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 01:12 PM   #22 (permalink)
Veteran Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: WI
Posts: 1,922
Default

well tea party supporters generally are delusional...

Obama London: Inexplicable Edits on Sarah Palin's Facebook Page

Interesting observation by a blogger on how well Palin has her FB comments editied - until this comes up:
"It's ok. Christina Taylor Green was probably going to end up a left wing bleeding heart liberal anyway. Hey, as 'they' say, what would you do if you had the chance to kill Hitler as a kid? Exactly."

Funny enough that comment wasn't removed by Palins team of expert PR morons. Lets take a leap and say the insane shooter wasn't influenced by any right wing hysteria, it doesn't change the fact that the extreme right wing is becoming more and more militant and uses violence invoking imagery as a tool to get the idiots that vote for them worked up.
snowjeeper is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 01:29 PM   #23 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East Coast
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowjeeper View Post
well tea party supporters generally are delusional...

Obama London: Inexplicable Edits on Sarah Palin's Facebook Page

Interesting observation by a blogger on how well Palin has her FB comments editied - until this comes up:
"It's ok. Christina Taylor Green was probably going to end up a left wing bleeding heart liberal anyway. Hey, as 'they' say, what would you do if you had the chance to kill Hitler as a kid? Exactly."

Funny enough that comment wasn't removed by Palins team of expert PR morons. Lets take a leap and say the insane shooter wasn't influenced by any right wing hysteria, it doesn't change the fact that the extreme right wing is becoming more and more militant and uses violence invoking imagery as a tool to get the idiots that vote for them worked up.
So you're telling me you're upset that TLC's 'Sarah Palin's Alask' is canceled?
Biggs is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 01:29 PM   #24 (permalink)
-LIFETIME MEMBER-
 
MunkySpunk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Berkshires
Posts: 3,212
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
Like I said, it may be the straw that broke the camel's back -- but if it wasn't a cross-hair, would it have been a movie? A song lyric? His neighbor when he was 12? At some point we need to stop pointing fingers at everyone but the culprit. We could force the media to be silent, force all talk to stop, and you'd still have people who kill.
Song lyrics? Weren't Ozzy and Judas Priest investigated for their violent lyrics? Where were the strict constitutional zealots then?
Haven't plenty of movies been banned or edited? Why? They're just words and images... They couldn't possibly influence people. Let's not even get into the crap that video games are held responsible for.

I agree this culprit is responsible for his own actions, but I also feel that people should be held accountable for what they say and suggest. Or could we just say Hitler was as innocent as you because he didn't actually kill any Jews with his own two hands, and he was allowed to say what he wanted?
Quote:
I'm not willing to take away people's rights to say/write what they want to 'protect' these nut jobs from hearing something that could set them off. Would I be happier if the rhetoric was more civil? Sure -- but once you start mandating how spoken/written words are utilized, you run into much bigger troubles.
With freedom of speech comes responsibility for what you say.
Quote:
And to satiate my own curiosity, what makes a rifle an 'assault' rifle?
You're the one with the license, did you not read up on firearms before applying?
Quote:
And how does bringing one to a peaceful political gathering all of a sudden make it a study of chaos?
Who said it was a study of chaos?
Quote:
I'm a licensed concealed carrier and I've never once walked into somewhere and had the once peaceful setting explode into a war-zone.
I'm all out of medals of valor, would a pat on the back and a 'Thank you good citizen!' do?

Did you hear about that one time when someone with a gun also walked into a peaceful setting and shot a congresswoman in the head at point blank range, also killing a federal judge and a child among others?
__________________
"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

10/11 - 24, Smote on Feb 13

Last edited by MunkySpunk; 01-10-2011 at 01:37 PM. Reason: Forgot that video game makers, musicians, and movie writers are responsible for their words, but politicians are not.
MunkySpunk is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 01:56 PM   #25 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East Coast
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkySpunk View Post
I agree. I also agree this culprit is responsible for his own actions, but I also feel that people should be held accountable for what they say and suggest. Or could we just say Hitler was as innocent as you because he didn't actually kill any Jews with his own two hands, and he was allowed to say what he wanted?
I dont dispute what you say in the least -- like I said, I'm all for this political back and forth bullshit to become much more civil. A civil discussion goes a long way as opposed to the foam-at-the-mouth blind hate that goes on now. I guess what I'm getting at is that I'm in total agreement with you and the rest that these messages should have some backlash from the general public. Where I guess I differ, is I dont believe the government should be involved in determining whether a cross-hair on a map is okay.

Quote:
With freedom of speech comes responsibility for what you say.
I agree -- the general public should be in an uproar about the 'Second Amendment Remedy'. Let that person know that you, as the public, find it horrendous. If enough people do it, it'll stop. The government doesn't need to intervene to say what symbol can and cannot be put in a shitty Palin ad.

Quote:
You're the one with the license, did you not read up on firearms before applying?
I was being a bit facetious -- it's always irked me that people use 'assault' rifle as a way to make something more than what it is. Sort of a way to 'incite fear' as we're on the subject. A dictionary definition of an assault rifle is one that is utilized by the military. If you want to get really technical, it's illegal to own a military weapon, unless you yourself serve in the military/law enforcement. Even then, you're required to have a special license to do so and have to be cleared by said military/law enforcement to purchase one. So someone bringing a rifle into a meeting hall sounds far less threatening than someone bringing a military issued fully-automatic (which is what most people believe the 'assault' part of assault rifle to be -- which also isn't true) rifle. Does either matter? No, simply my own questioning as to why you used the word 'assault' when rifle would have done just fine. Regardless, all of the instances that I remember of this happening (the Starbucks incidents awhile ago as well as Acadia National Park in Maine are the most recent), the people brought them in in a fully legal, completely safe manner.

Quote:
Who said it was a study of chaos?
There had to be a reason you brought it up -- if said peaceful political gathering remained a peaceful political gathering regardless of the 'gun-toting hillbilly', then what's the problem?

Quote:
I'm all out of medals of valor, would a pat on the back and a 'Thank you good citizen!' do?
I suppose that will work.

Quote:
Did you hear about that one time when someone with a gun also walked into a peaceful setting and shot a congresswoman in the head at point blank range, also killing a federal judge and a child among others?
I did. Just like you cant compare apples to oranges, you cant compare law-abiding citizens to crazy psychopaths. Legally carrying a gun into a Starbucks/Acadia National Park and following the proper protocol to have it okayed by the security/law enforcement present is vastly different than a robber hiding a 'piece' in his pants when going to hold up a 7-11.

Last edited by Biggs; 01-10-2011 at 02:01 PM.
Biggs is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 02:09 PM   #26 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East Coast
Posts: 156
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by MunkySpunk View Post
Song lyrics? Weren't Ozzy and Judas Priest investigated for their violent lyrics? Where were the strict constitutional zealots then?
Haven't plenty of movies been banned or edited? Why? They're just words and images... They couldn't possibly influence people. Let's not even get into the crap that video games are held responsible for.
I never debated the fact that people CAN and DO blame other things for a person's actions -- I'm stating that I think MORE blame should be put on the actual nutcase and LESS blame on their surroundings. When something happens, everyone instantly searches for a scapegoat. Billy killed someone, the fault must be his parents! It must have been that video game he played! It must have been those Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle action figures he played with! It must have been that dumb-as-a-rock Palin's ad! At some point it's just a fucking nutcase doing a fucking nutcase thing.

This guy who shot that poor congresswomen and her audience was a fucking nutcase long before Palin's ad. I'm merely stating that there has to be some disconnect -- otherwise everyone who watches one of those terrible 'Saw' movies, would be setting up elaborate killing machines for fun. Or everyone who played one of those Grand Theft Auto video games would be out killing hookers. You'll have your random outliers who will actually equate what they see to what they do, but I'd be willing to bet they would have been set off by anything eventually, not necessarily that ONE thing.
Biggs is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 02:14 PM   #27 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
swilber08's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Boone, NC
Posts: 235
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowjeeper View Post
well tea party supporters generally are delusional...

Obama London: Inexplicable Edits on Sarah Palin's Facebook Page

Interesting observation by a blogger on how well Palin has her FB comments editied - until this comes up:
"It's ok. Christina Taylor Green was probably going to end up a left wing bleeding heart liberal anyway. Hey, as 'they' say, what would you do if you had the chance to kill Hitler as a kid? Exactly."

Funny enough that comment wasn't removed by Palins team of expert PR morons. Lets take a leap and say the insane shooter wasn't influenced by any right wing hysteria, it doesn't change the fact that the extreme right wing is becoming more and more militant and uses violence invoking imagery as a tool to get the idiots that vote for them worked up.
__________________
2010 Flow Quantum Scotty Lago 155w
2010 Flow M9-SE Bindings


swilber08 is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 02:26 PM   #28 (permalink)
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: East Coast
Posts: 156
Default

To bring the discussion back to the Tucson incident, what does one do when someone seems really unstable and dangerous yet has posed no physical danger? Is there a protocol? Do you wait until something happens and then reveal your feelings? Or do you think in many cases, it's sort of a 'hindsight is 20/20' type of thing where at the time, you thought the person was simply a bit 'off' and now that something drastic has happened, the fog clears a bit.

The reason I ask is because in the MSNBC article, one of his community college classmates (who worked in a mental hospital I believe) was extremely worried that the shooter might actually do something dangerous. She informed the teacher (although it doesn't say if that was what got him on the school's 'be aware of' list) of her concerns -- going so far as to sit next to the door with her purse ready should something happen -- she'd get out quick.

So what do you think is 'okay' in terms of what to do? Do you do nothing because it really is none of your business? Do you voice your own concerns to an authority? Do you simply sit next to the door?

Has anyone been in a situation where you thought, 'that person right there, they're going to be dangerous some day'? What did you do?
Biggs is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 03:16 PM   #29 (permalink)
Drunk with power...er beer.
 
Donutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,537
Blog Entries: 214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowjeeper View Post
Interesting observation by a blogger on how well Palin has her FB comments editied - until this comes up:
"It's ok. Christina Taylor Green was probably going to end up a left wing bleeding heart liberal anyway. Hey, as 'they' say, what would you do if you had the chance to kill Hitler as a kid? Exactly."
Are you fucking kidding me? That was actually posted by someone?
__________________

I hate the parts between winter
Donutz is offline  
Old 01-10-2011, 03:21 PM   #30 (permalink)
Drunk with power...er beer.
 
Donutz's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Posts: 4,537
Blog Entries: 214
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
To bring the discussion back to the Tucson incident,
Although you pose a very good thought-provoking question, it doesn't actually bring the discussion back to the Tucson incident. I don't think any kind of big deal is being made out of whether the shooter should have been id'd sooner.

But as far as your question is concerned, think: restraining orders against abusive spouses. Even if everyone involved is virtually certain that the scumball is going to come around and do bad, the cops can't do diddly until after the fact.
__________________

I hate the parts between winter
Donutz is offline  
 

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:56 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.6.0 PL2
VerticalSports
Baseball Forum Golf Forum Boxing Forum Snowmobile Forum
Basketball Forum Soccer Forum MMA Forum PWC Forum
Football Forum Cricket Forum Wrestling Forum ATV Forum
Hockey Forum Volleyball Forum Paintball Forum Snowboarding Forum
Tennis Forum Rugby Forums Lacrosse Forum Skiing Forums