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post #31 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-19-2011, 05:59 PM
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Let's put this is perspective. What percentage of people are being convicted on minor drug offences i.e weed and what percentage of people are being wrongfully convicted? Discussing both of those issues as being a big part of the problem would only be realized if these percentages were significant. So far the only numbers I can find regarding weed are less than a single percent and I imagine the wrongful convictions is less than that. So on that basis, neither of those two points are the reason why so many people are incarcerated. I'd love to see what others have found but anything under 5% isn't getting to the root of the issue.

Personally I think your gun laws are huge contributing factor,it's not a coincidence that the US also has the highest number of violent crimes committed with a firearm than any other 1st world country. The sheer number of firearms produced and sold in the country almost guarantees that there will be no shortage of guns falling into criminal hands.

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post #32 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-19-2011, 06:47 PM
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Yes, but what kind of drugs? Are we talking weed or cocaine? Huge difference IMO. That's the number I'm trying to find and have yet to come up with anything significant.

With a little more searching I found this:

Calculations based on recent BJS reports suggest that, at any one time, 59,300 prisoners charged with or convicted of violating marijuana laws (3.3% of the total incarcerated population) are behind bars, at a total cost to taxpayers of some $ 1.2 billion per year. They almost 12% of the total federal prison population and about 2.7% of the state population. Of the people incarcerated in federal and state prison and in local jails, 37,500 were charged with marijuana offences only and an additional 21,800 with both marijuana offences and other controlled-substance offences. Of the marijuana-only offenders, 15,400 are incarcerated for possession, not trafficking.

marijuana.htm

3.3% of the total incarcerated population? Again I'm not drawing any conclusions until I can find some hard data, but these types of numbers are not the problem behind why so many people are incarcerated in the US. I'm actually surprised it's not easy to find my search skills are usually better than this but I'm probably missing something with my search strings. Help me out here.

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post #33 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 08:44 AM
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45% Of Students Don't Learn Much In College

I disagree. From what I've observed, they learn how to facebook more effectively with background noise (professor giving a lecture), text faster while walking from class to class (or during class), become aces with wikipedia and google (research 'papers') and definitively increase their alcohol tolerance.

Although I must agree with the finding that going greek actually makes you dumber.

The study just needs to look at the right variables.

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post #34 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 10:44 AM
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45% Of Students Don't Learn Much In College

I disagree. From what I've observed, they learn how to facebook more effectively with background noise (professor giving a lecture), text faster while walking from class to class (or during class), become aces with wikipedia and google (research 'papers') and definitively increase their alcohol tolerance.

Although I must agree with the finding that going greek actually makes you dumber.

The study just needs to look at the right variables.
What does the higher-education system have to do with our discussion? Unless you somehow link it and make it relavant, that's like the South Park Chewbacca Defense.

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post #35 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 11:48 AM
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What does the higher-education system have to do with our discussion? Unless you somehow link it and make it relavant, that's like the South Park Chewbacca Defense.
OK, I'll go slow for you.

Subject: Incarceration Up, Education Down: America’s Cannibalistic Profiteering

We're WAY past the point of debating just the OP's left-wing opinion article.

I too could do a quick google search and copy and paste links, but guess what googling 'American justice system is broken' brings up? Guess what googling 'American justice system is the best in the world' brings up? Yeah, more conveniently linkable opinions and pretty graphs fitting the search terms.

Have you ever seen the subject lines of the threads here on this forum? Have you read anything written by Tony? American kids are using apostrophes to pluralize nouns, misspelling basic words, and handing in term papers written in 'OMG, RUS? Txt like this. Cu l8tr'. They're some of the fastest texters in the world, but they couldn't tell you the difference between there, their, and they're if their lives depended on it.

Let's do this the half-debate way: Fix the justice system that some maintain is broken. Great, now Tom the pot smoker who wouldn't hurt a fly is now free to go to school. First off, IF he doesn't drop out, he goes on to ITT tech. He graduates with $75,000 in debt and no job prospects. Problem solved? No. He's still getting his money extracted through his ass by the corps with no lube.

Let's debate the part between the comma and colon in the subject. What's the good of getting them out of prison and into school if school isn't doing anything and the for-profit colleges are bleeding disadvantaged kids drier than any legal system ever could?

If you're going to debate the small percentage of convictions that should never have been convictions and tangent into particular offenses, should the debate not include the rather large percentage of students not learning jack shit in college when the entire debate is about how the prison system makes it difficult to get the misdemeanor kids into school and off the streets?

If this doesn't meet with your approval, well, that's fine by me.

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post #36 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 01:18 PM
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I'll apologize, that is part of the original article and a subsequent factor, I was trying to figure out what it had to do with prison laws as that was what was primarily being discussed.

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post #37 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 02:00 PM
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No apologies necessary. This is a forum, you didn't run over my dog.

When I see those ITT tech, Kaplan, or DeVry institute commercials, it steams me to no end. Kids and parents who don't know any better are shelling out good money for a useless education - often enough money to go to a real state school. You can't even transfer those basic math credits to a real school, that's how bad they suck.

You see success stories on commercials. But for every success story there's 1000 people $50,000 in debt and flipping burgers with no job prospects.

What pisses me off the most about it is that students enrolled in these for-profit and private schools are still eligible for financial aid. These schools know this. They can and have done all sorts of shady underhanded shit (like enrolling you for extra classes without your knowledge or not processing a class drop) to increase your tuition bill and therefore more taxpayer money.

Cannibalistic profiteering indeed.

It's all just another sham to fleece taxpayers of their money and leave the little guys carrying the debt.

Solutions: All for profit and private schools are automatically ineligible for subsidized loans or any non-private tuition assistance. The administration needs to be held accountable for incompetence and errors at ALL schools. And we need to fight the good grades = nerd / bad grades = cool attitude that kids seem to have (that's a tough one). And finally put cell phone and wi-fi jammers in classrooms. Students can use their laptops for class, but not for facebook during class.

That's just my 2 cents.

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post #38 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 05:58 PM Thread Starter
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yeah private schools like those are becoming the new racket as well.
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post #39 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 06:40 PM
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Are you old enough to drive?
I'll be 17 in March, then I can get my learners permit. So what?

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post #40 of 122 (permalink) Old 01-20-2011, 06:42 PM
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Originally Posted by MunkySpunk View Post
OK, I'll go slow for you.

Subject: Incarceration Up, Education Down: America’s Cannibalistic Profiteering

We're WAY past the point of debating just the OP's left-wing opinion article.

I too could do a quick google search and copy and paste links, but guess what googling 'American justice system is broken' brings up? Guess what googling 'American justice system is the best in the world' brings up? Yeah, more conveniently linkable opinions and pretty graphs fitting the search terms.

Have you ever seen the subject lines of the threads here on this forum? Have you read anything written by Tony? American kids are using apostrophes to pluralize nouns, misspelling basic words, and handing in term papers written in 'OMG, RUS? Txt like this. Cu l8tr'. They're some of the fastest texters in the world, but they couldn't tell you the difference between there, their, and they're if their lives depended on it.

Let's do this the half-debate way: Fix the justice system that some maintain is broken. Great, now Tom the pot smoker who wouldn't hurt a fly is now free to go to school. First off, IF he doesn't drop out, he goes on to ITT tech. He graduates with $75,000 in debt and no job prospects. Problem solved? No. He's still getting his money extracted through his ass by the corps with no lube.

Let's debate the part between the comma and colon in the subject. What's the good of getting them out of prison and into school if school isn't doing anything and the for-profit colleges are bleeding disadvantaged kids drier than any legal system ever could?

If you're going to debate the small percentage of convictions that should never have been convictions and tangent into particular offenses, should the debate not include the rather large percentage of students not learning jack shit in college when the entire debate is about how the prison system makes it difficult to get the misdemeanor kids into school and off the streets?

If this doesn't meet with your approval, well, that's fine by me.

Quality post right here. However most of the shit people choose to learn in school isn't worth learning anyway.

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