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Old 01-20-2011, 08:33 PM   #41 (permalink)
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I'll be 17 in March, then I can get my learners permit. So what?
probably because you sound young lol ;-)
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Old 01-20-2011, 11:39 PM   #42 (permalink)
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I thought as much by your response to Hobo.

I am a commercial tractor trailer driver and have been doing it for 22 years now and have well over a million miles of accident free driving in the big rigs out here in the mountainous west. I could tell by your response that you had little or no actual driving experience. This is not a slam, just an observation.

His point and mine are that accidents can happen through a split second of inattention. This does not make a person a "piece of shit" as you like to say, it means they are human and make mistakes. Sadly, these mistakes take lives. The Justice system is there to see that justice is served. Having monetary motivation taints this idea of justice being blind. Unless a person is criminally negligent, justice is not served by locking someone up for an honest mistake.

While I am anal retentive about my driving (why I have never had an accident) I am understanding of mistakes. My sister in law in Spokane was killed in the 90`s by a teenager in a pickup truck who ran into here as she was stopped behind a school bus. The kid who hit her was 17 and was changing a CD and never seen that traffic was stopped. The D.A. in Spokane county wanted to criminally charge the kid. We, as the family actually plead in his behalf to drop the charges. It was an accident because he was careless, not criminal. Destroying his life at 17 was not going to bring our family member back and it did not serve justice. Had he been drinking, that would have been another story; we would have thrown the book at him.

The reason I asked about your age was because of your cold black and white absolutism on the issues. You have only experienced 16 years on the planet whereas I have been here for 46. At 16, you have only been politically aware for maybe 6 years and have only known 2 Presidents and life in the 200`s. I was voting before you were even born. You have not experienced that America that those of us in our 30`s and 40`s have experienced. You have not seen how much freedom we have actually lost in the past 30 years. You have not seen the events globally that have shaped our current world and why we now face threats of terrorism in America. I have learned that life is not as black and white as you think. As you mature and gain in experience and wisdom, you will also see this.
That was too easy. You took the bait and ran so far with it. I figured you wouldn't buy the "I'm only 16" nonsense since my birthdate is in my profile, I've posted in the occupation thread, I've talking about being in college etc., but I guess it should be expected because no one person can keep track of everything.

Anyway, I'm 23, so I guess you still have every right to keep pulling the seniority card as long as you want, but your assumptions about my driving experience are fairly off. I've never been in an accident that I've caused, granted I've had 7-8 years of driving which is a relatively small amount in the grand scheme of things. I was involved in one where I was rear ended. In any event, I don't buy into the driving skill increasing with age, except in the very first few years during the learning process. So before you try saying that I only have 7 years and I still have a lot to experience, I'll tell you now don't even bother. A good majority of the shitty drivers in their teens or 20s grow up to be the same shitty driver in their 40s and 50s. I have more experience on the track than 99% of the population, which helps me understand the capabilities and limitations of my car a lot better than someone who has no track time. I'm not even sure how driving made it's way into this thread as there's no comparison between a person accidentally hitting a pedestrian and a person being an idiot and intentionally walking around with illegal drugs. But that's neither here nor there.

What was this thread about? Oh, prisons and tyranny or something. My attitude towards to the topic was overwhelmingly blunt because like all discussions regarding current events, it's just one big dead end debate of stubborn people who like hearing themselves talk and think they got everything all figured out while swearing they are being pro-active. They all end the same way, with all sorts of cheap talk about what needs to be done and how they know exactly how to do it. And the fact that it's on a forum just makes it seem like even more nonsense. You seemed to enjoy "stickin it to me" with lots of facts, statistics, and long, well thought out posts, and I was entertained by simply getting a rise out of you. It seemed like we were both thriving off the exchanges. I at least was having a little fun with it.

You can give me all the information or details about what the past was like and what you think the future will be like, but it will be in vain. What would you like me to do about it? Go pwn a bunch of forum nerds with all my opinions? Because that's as far as it's gonna go for 99.99 percent of the population.

For everything in life that can't be controlled, I've always had a "just deal with it" attitude, and it seems like at 23 I'm better at sucking it up, rolling with the punches, and getting over things than a majority of the people out there. One of the most relieving experiences a person can have is realizing their opinions and existence is a lot less significant than they would have hoped or expected.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:20 AM   #43 (permalink)
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Okay you got me...I did fall for it...

Anyway, driving came up because Hobo mentioned taking out a pedestrian as a result of gulping down a big mac....

Your response was "blunt" as you put it and sounded like it came from someone without a lot of driving experience or recognition that we all do shit behind that wheel that *could* have been a factor in an accident...that`s all. I agree with your point about drivers being shitty at 20, 30, 40 etc. The only thing I would say is that experiences does factor into it. I routinely drive in shit with the semi now that would have scared the shit out of me in my first years as a truck driver. Glad you are a responsible driver though...there are too many idiots on the road as it is and I have to avoid them every night...

Back on topic....

I agree that debating does not change your opponent`s mind to your side and anyone who thinks it will is fooling themselves. There is a point to debate though and that is for the lurkers who are undecided on an issue or uneducated about the facts of an issue. In the debate, both sides should be backing up their arguments with resources and the overall discussion should be informative. While I ultimately usually have my mind made up, the debate process forces me to fact check and that process sometimes tempers my strong belief in a point of view, or backs it up. There is actually a lot to be gained from discussions like this even though it does not "convert" the other person.

My point of view on this subject is really very simple. I think we do need to place a lot more economic emphasis on education than we do and understand that the penal system is a function of the government, not just another money making scheme. Drugs are just a side issue to the topic of the thread really.
Was it Hobo who said that? I thought it was someone else who first brought driving into the equation. It's too late and I'm too lazy to go searching for that post but meh.

You're right, there is a lot to be gained from these types of discussions. Unfortunately there's just as much stress/frustration/anger can come out of them too, which to me seems more prevalent. But surely that's because I've been so recently exposed to all the condescending college douche bag know-it-all politicians that think they could do a better job than every president, senator, congressman, major, and governor the US has ever had and if you disagree with them then you're just an ignorant moron.

Because of that, I now choose not to get too involved and instead take the high road on most of these discussions. Except it's really more like the semi-serious sarcastic blunt button pushing road.

Nobody take anything I say too seriously.



Unless I post a picture of srs cat.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:22 AM   #44 (permalink)
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Didn't notice this until now.

Of all the laws to break that's the one you pick? lawl. Anyone who runs down a pedestrian deserves whatever punishment their dumbass is given.

Now I want a big mac.
Yes, that's the one I chose to pick because it shows that any normal, law-abiding citizen can find themselves in a heap of trouble with our so-called "justice" system. Since drugs didn't apply to you, and you seem to believe that any person who just blindly follows will never be in trouble, I figured driving would be something you could relate to. If you do ever find yourself in a position as the one I stated, I hope you remember your own words as you're pleading for forgiveness and mercy from the judge. Oh, and just for the record, I'm not Hobo.
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Old 01-21-2011, 07:29 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Yes, that's the one I chose to pick because it shows that any normal, law-abiding citizen can find themselves in a heap of trouble with our so-called "justice" system. Since drugs didn't apply to you, and you seem to believe that any person who just blindly follows will never be in trouble, I figured driving would be something you could relate to. If you do ever find yourself in a position as the one I stated, I hope you remember your own words as you're pleading for forgiveness and mercy from the judge. Oh, and just for the record, I'm not Hobo.
But you don't see the difference between intentionally carrying a controlled substance and accidentally hitting a pedestrian? I see your angle, but the two just don't seem interchangeable. I'll admit, I was hasty in forming a response when you initially brought it up. Regardless, in almost all pedestrian/vehicle collisions it's out of carelessness on behalf of the driver. Unless a person darts into the middle of the road from behind a car or some other large object in the pitch black when the roads are icy, but this is rarely ever the case.
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Last edited by Phenom; 01-21-2011 at 07:33 AM.
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Old 01-21-2011, 12:48 PM   #46 (permalink)
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But you don't see the difference between intentionally carrying a controlled substance and accidentally hitting a pedestrian? I see your angle, but the two just don't seem interchangeable. I'll admit, I was hasty in forming a response when you initially brought it up. Regardless, in almost all pedestrian/vehicle collisions it's out of carelessness on behalf of the driver. Unless a person darts into the middle of the road from behind a car or some other large object in the pitch black when the roads are icy, but this is rarely ever the case.
I see the difference, but the reason I use it is because both of those situations will carry a "mandatory minimum sentence". This is the problem I have. No crime should come with a MANDATORY minimum sentence. A suggested minimum sentence would be fine. Then it could be used as guideline in the sentencing, thus allowing sentencing to be based off the seriousness and circumstances of the crime. As well as being based on the criminal history of the person who committed said crime. This would allow for a fairer justice system IMO. As it stands right now, our justice system is far from fair, or forgiving.
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Old 01-21-2011, 01:31 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Actually the mandatory minimums are there so that the justice system is fair, at least in theory. Judges and juries are made up of people, the ones that have different beliefs, values, intellect, biases etc and having a minimum sentence is there to prevent judicial discretion and allow for uniformity in sentencing.

There are arguements for and against it, I'm just pointing out that they were generally instituted so that the justice system can be fair.
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Old 01-23-2011, 10:09 AM   #48 (permalink)
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minimum sentencing has only filled up our prisons more, so in reality it's not making the country a safer place.
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Old 01-24-2011, 05:02 AM   #49 (permalink)
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whats the drop out rate like in the US?
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:07 AM   #50 (permalink)
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pretty high.
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