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Old 02-08-2011, 11:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Talking Google is Communist!

<Spoiler alert: This is meant to be used as a discussion. I am not putting down anyones political views!>

So in my history class right now we are discussing communism versus capitalism. From what I have learned and previously knew, communism in theory is a pretty good idea however it can never be truly achieved on a large scale (but on a smaller scale like an Israeli kibbutz it is ideal). Therefore I still believe in capitalism as the governmental structure I would rather live in.

Or if you want my honest opinion, combine the two making local governments communist and state/national government capitalistic. Sort of what we have already with our public schools and terrible NYS taxes but more defined. Moving on...

While having a conversation today, I came to the conclusion that Google is communist. Here is my argument:
1. The way it operates, by absorbing our personal information and data and redistributing it equally for the good of the people is the definition of communism.
2. Google played a huge role in the Net Neutrality Act. The practice of keeping government involvement out of the internet (while Google still plays a huge role in the FBI) can be portrayed as communist.
3. Google as a company itself has a communist infrastructure. All of Google's employees are provided with housing and nearly equal pay. Their benefits and stock options use communist ideas (The stock market being communist is for another rant).

I think I could even go on to say that the whole internet is one huge communist nation that is spreading faster than the iron curtain. There is no king of the internet (Daniel Tosh doesn't count) and everyone has an equal chance and receives the same things. However, people aren't limited so they can use their talent to go above and beyond the typical internet user creating web shows, blogs, etc. So by providing a base to work up form and giving everyone the opportunity to go above and beyond, is the internet communist or capitalist?
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Old 02-08-2011, 11:10 PM   #2 (permalink)
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The internet is capitalist. We've taken the bait...the switch is on its way.
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Old 02-09-2011, 01:48 PM   #3 (permalink)
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1. The way it operates, by absorbing our personal information and data and redistributing it equally for the good of the people is the definition of communism.
That's the definition of a police state. There's also the question of just how much 'good' is being done when Google just sells (capitalism) your personal info to the highest bidder, on-line merchants or to the government. I use duckduckgo for my searches now because of just how much collecting and passing of personal data goes on with Google.

It's the way of things: Apple was the peoples' underdog hero in the mid-90's. Fighting the good fight against the iron fist of Microsoft. Now Apple's trying to sue hackers who write unlocking programs for its products so it can maximize its exclusivity as an app dealer and therefore its profits. Hero of the people my ass - it's Animal Farm viewed through the lens of business instead of the Russian Revolution.

Look for the benevolent Google-saurus to follow the same course as it grows.
Quote:
2. Google played a huge role in the Net Neutrality Act. The practice of keeping government involvement out of the internet (while Google still plays a huge role in the FBI) can be portrayed as communist.
In a a communist state, the ruling body has its hands elbow deep in the internet. All profits, servers, computers, lines, nodes etc..etc.. belong to the people, which in historically communist systems usually means 'belongs to the government under the pretense of belonging to the people'.
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3. Google as a company itself has a communist infrastructure. All of Google's employees are provided with housing and nearly equal pay. Their benefits and stock options use communist ideas (The stock market being communist is for another rant).
That's taking care of your employees. I can see where this could be perceived as communism, but it can also be perceived as just REALLY smart business. You give your employees the best, you attract the best employees. That's the way capitalism is supposed to work...... On paper.
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Old 02-09-2011, 03:56 PM   #4 (permalink)
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3. Google as a company itself has a communist infrastructure. All of Google's employees are provided with housing and nearly equal pay. Their benefits and stock options use communist ideas
I don't know where you (or your professor) got this information, but it's incredibly incorrect. I have an acquaintance who works for Google in the Boston branch and I can tell you right now that the pay is not equal.

Google employees have income ranges of $200,515.00/yr to $14.00/hr and everything in between. As for the housing, Google has 'dorms' for those employees who CHOOSE to utilize them. You are not forced into them. They are tiny dorm room-esque rooms for those who choose to live in them. Many of the residents are recent college graduates or they came from over-seas -- two demographics who dont have the time/resources to search and invest in the housing market in Silicon Valley. If I'm not mistaken, the actual number of 'dorms' they have, is VASTLY outnumbered by the number of employees they have in Silicon Valley.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:21 PM   #5 (permalink)
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also considering the average home is around 750k in mountain view, ca.
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Old 02-09-2011, 07:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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It's the way of things: Apple was the peoples' underdog hero in the mid-90's. Fighting the good fight against the iron fist of Microsoft.
Hey, let's not forget that before that, Microsoft was the people's underdog hero in the late 80's to early 90's, fighting the good fight against the iron fist of IBM!

Same shit different pile.

The problem I have with this whole "communist" labelling thing is it's so cliche and shallow. It's like you think if you can find a way to stick a hot-button label on something like "communist", "socialist", "elitist", right away you can run around waving your hands in the air yelling "oooh! ooooh! watch out! (label here) Watch out! boogetty boogetty! (label here) Horrors!"

Life's just not that simple. You want a true right-wing, no-pansy-socialist-laws, total-free-market capitalism system, go live in Darfur.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:03 PM   #7 (permalink)
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You have it almost correct.....

Capitalism and Communism are not governmental systems; they are economic systems and can be present in many governmental systems. Capitalism actually works best under Totalitarianism like we see in China. China is the biggest practitioner of Capitalism on the planet right now. Capitalism works well under Despotism, Feudalism, Corporatism and it works really well under Fascism.

True Communism or Marxism is an ideal and the closest the world got to seeing it was the model that Leon Trotsky tried to implement in the USSR right after the October 1917 revolution. Leninism won the day however and it was a harder line form with many corruptions of the Utopian Marxism and it allowed immediate abuse of the system by the very people who were abusing the system under the Tsars. The Oligarchy found positions of power within the new "Communist" government and the rest is Cold War history.

True Communism can only work in a Constitutional Republic like America. By its very nature, Communism needs democracy for the people have to freely embrace it for it to flourish. Discontent will ultimately destroy the model.

The mix you speak of exists today and is becoming the most equitable, sustainable system there is. It exists throughout most of Europe. It is called Market Socialism, I am 100% a proud Socialist because I see this is a system that best serves the needs of the entire society while enabling those with skill and work ethic to achieve great wealth. The difference is they are not allowed to achieve personal wealth at the expense of the other people in the society and the environment of the planet that sustains all life on Earth.

If mankind has any chance of making out of the 21`st century alive, he must evolve into a socialist economy paired with a strong democratic government whether it be a representative Republic or a Parliamentary Monarchy.

Plutocracy has no place in the modern world and like the Oligarchies that have fallen before, Plutocracy and corporatism must been tossed onto the ash heap of history.
I knew someone would find a flaw in my post but I'm just really getting into this stuff and trying to comprehend everything. I find all of these different ways of establishing our government and economy fascinating.

I read a little about Market Socialism, and as interesting of a structure that sounds I think it slightly differs from what I was proposing (unless your post has to do about the Google part). I meant that towns should have control over their own economies and large stores (supermarkets, chain stores) should be owned by the townspeople who shop there. I also think that small mom and pop shops should be allowed to remain privatized. These towns could form their laws without a leader, but rather a true democracy. However federal laws and regulations should be made by a parliamentary system with elected officials to represent these towns/areas, as does the House of Representatives and Senate. The way I see it, the economy would grow and towns would not die because of a constant income and there could be a cycle from people to government to factories to workers to private business (or something like that).

As I stated before though, I still believe our government works great and that capitalism works, but is in desperate need of reform. I'm more so discussing a concept here. Our ideas are very similar, but I think that the state and federal government (or lack of) differs. I also think that you make a great point about how true communism can only work when combined with a parliament. I think this is the missing puzzle piece that explains why it hasn't worked before. In the past there has been a single leader who couldn't complete the system and have the ability to step down. On paper and without a leader, communism is completely egalitarian.

Am I making sense?
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by snowjeeper View Post
also considering the average home is around 750k in mountain view, ca.
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Originally Posted by Biggs View Post
I don't know where you (or your professor) got this information, but it's incredibly incorrect. I have an acquaintance who works for Google in the Boston branch and I can tell you right now that the pay is not equal.

Google employees have income ranges of $200,515.00/yr to $14.00/hr and everything in between. As for the housing, Google has 'dorms' for those employees who CHOOSE to utilize them. You are not forced into them. They are tiny dorm room-esque rooms for those who choose to live in them. Many of the residents are recent college graduates or they came from over-seas -- two demographics who dont have the time/resources to search and invest in the housing market in Silicon Valley. If I'm not mistaken, the actual number of 'dorms' they have, is VASTLY outnumbered by the number of employees they have in Silicon Valley.
Yeah, I probably should have done a quick google (ironic, eh?) before writing that. Sorry.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:09 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Hey, let's not forget that before that, Microsoft was the people's underdog hero in the late 80's to early 90's, fighting the good fight against the iron fist of IBM!

Same shit different pile.

The problem I have with this whole "communist" labelling thing is it's so cliche and shallow. It's like you think if you can find a way to stick a hot-button label on something like "communist", "socialist", "elitist", right away you can run around waving your hands in the air yelling "oooh! ooooh! watch out! (label here) Watch out! boogetty boogetty! (label here) Horrors!"

Life's just not that simple. You want a true right-wing, no-pansy-socialist-laws, total-free-market capitalism system, go live in Darfur.
I know I'm contradicting myself here, but I totally agree. I was labeling Google as Communist just to show how I perceived it. I know on a deeper level it isn't completely. It's cliche and shallow when used as a slur against someone when the person using it really means dictator. It gives the idea a bad reputation.
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Old 02-09-2011, 10:11 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The internet is capitalist. We've taken the bait...the switch is on its way.
I think Snowolf was closer with Market Socialism. The potential for individual gain is present, but the person needs to use the materials that everyone has to accomplish this.
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