Donutz

As others have said, it sure would be nice if our minds and spirits continued in some way. I'd like to believe in that, just as I'd like to believe that ETs have visited us and continue to do so. I'm not kidding, I'm a dedicated SF fan, trekkie, etc, and if aliens landed in front of the UN building tomorrow, I'd be dancing in the streets (unless they started shooting )

But I can't make myself believe in aliens because there's no evidence for it. Lots of anecdotal evidence, lots of people willing to berate me for not believing, but that's it. I consider myself lucky in that I'm the type of person who cannot be browbeaten into accepting something, but I can change my mind if the facts go that way.

As with ET, if god did appear tomorrow to tell us we exist forever, I'd be pretty happy -- although if it was the christian/hebrew version I'd have some hard questions for him. The xian god as depicted in the bible is not an admirable being. If you accept biblical accounts as true then he is a psychopathic, vile, sadistic little shit of a troll. And the universe is too orderly, too predictable to have been created by such a low-life asshat. Therefore IMO at minimum the bible has to be wrong about its depiction of god. Once you accept that, the question is not "is the bible wrong" but "how wrong is it". It's a steady logical slide from there to the question "do we even have any evidence at all of the existance of god" and the answer is no.

I'm still prepared to be convinced. But having grown up in the xian milieu, I know all the arguments, both catholic and protestant, and they really come down to variations on browbeating, playing on people's fears, and emotional appeals.

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Mountain Days: 30

InfiniteEclipse

In related news, this just in - Scientists have estimated the first cosmic census of planets in our galaxy and the numbers are astronomical: at least 50 billion planets in the Milky Way.

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Donutz

It's only a war because xians have made it a war. To be fair, it's not just xians, any monotheistic religion is likely to be this way. But in the pre-xian era, multiple religions (some animist, some polyttheist, some with no discernible deity at all) existed in the ancient world. The xians essentially went to war to eradicate the opposition, and they (mostly in the form of the catholic church until recently) have been doing it ever since. Now we have not only xians telling you that you'll burn forever in hell if you don't belive JUST WHAT I TELL YOU, you've got the Archbishop of Canterbury claiming that people who aren't religious have no moral sense, you've got Falwell saying that non-christians shouldn't be allowed to hold office, and I could go on and on and on.

The problem isn't really that christians believe in god. The problem is that christians too often are badly behaved. This statement doesn't include things like starting this thread -- discussion (rational discussion) like this is always a good thing.

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Illegitimi non carborundum

Mountain Days: 30

Donutz

WOOO HOOOOOO!

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Illegitimi non carborundum

Mountain Days: 30

HoboMaster

Religion is a joke, because the more you scrutinize it's methods and beliefs, the more ridiculous it gets. My favorite is "heaven". In nearly every religion, heaven is basically this place where all the material and metaphysical things you enjoy and want in the material world are ever plenty, and everyone just stands around frolicking with them. If heaven is beyond the "material" world, why is it so focused on it? Why the fuck would earthly material things even exist?

How do you get young male adults to go blow themselves up for your selfish cause? Tell them they get masses of virgin women to have endless sex with if they go and do it.

Why is hell such a horrible place? To relatively deter human populations from causing chaos in society for fear of rediculous torture in an underground lava-cavern filled with demon-goatmen. WTF

Why does god need 20% of your money? So that the church leader can buy a new Mercedes Benz.

Why is Jesus depicted as a European despite where he was born? So that Christian European populations can identify with their deity.

Why is sex before marriage a sin? Because it goes against the age-old family structure that helped glue society together and decrease chaos.

Why is eating pork a sin? Because in the ancient middle-east, raising pigs was not a sustainable practice. Raising nomadic animals that could survive on a relatively desolate environment was far more sustainable. However because pigs are so damn delicious and the rich would be tempted to raise pigs anyways, it became a religious sin.

The list goes on.... you just have to look beyond the surface.

I can believe in some greater meaning, some mysticism in the Universe because it is so much bigger and complex then we are, not to mention where it came from. What I refuse to believe is some big earthly fantasy plan made up by people who wanted to manipulate other people.

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SPAZ

Religion is not a joke HoboMaster, it's the nut jobs that preach that their way is the only way. People die is faith based war because they feel superiority but in this day and age people are more willing to co-exist with each other. I'm Jewish, as are some of my friends. Others are Catholic, Unitarian Universalist, Islamic, and Atheist to name a few. Our political views also differ, and we see the world in different ways but what matters is that we are respectful of each others beliefs. Not trying to contradict myself, but I think that being open-minded is the way that we need to live our lives.

Back to the question at hand, Hobomaster again makes an excellent point. I think that religions role in our society needs to be reformed in order to exist in our world today. Sex before marriage, dues, etc. all need to be changed to make the system work. For the record, my religion doesn't prohibit the first point I made

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2011 Never Summer Revolver-R 156
2011 Flux RK30's
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Phenom

If I'm correct, you will have contributed salary throughout you're entire life to the church for nothing in return. If you decide not to contribute then you're not a good religious drone and you can have fun in hell.

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keep your mouth shut. one more time, please and thank you." -user: chingy_

SPAZ

But in another sense it's morality. When I'm older I don't think I will belong to another temple until I'm married and have kids. It is good because it teaches you values and rules of society and is good for social interaction (social groups, etc.).

And in reform Judaism you are more enabled to bring some of your own beliefs of G-d into your life. I think Unitarian Universalism is an excellent idea because you can believe in any G-d you chose or none at all, and you still get the education.

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2011 Never Summer Revolver-R 156
2011 Flux RK30's
2010 Rome Libertines

john doe

In 8th grade history at Atonement Lutheran School we had a section about the old polytheist cultures. I looked around the room to see basicly everyone snickering at how stupid these people could have been to believe in those silly gods. That's when it hit me like a ton of bricks. All these people had no reason for being christian instead of polytheist other then being born into it. They were basicly laughing at thier own ignorence. From that day I started really looking at christianity and how fucking rediculous it and all other religions are. I noticed that all around me were people that called them selves christian yet had no idea about the stuff in the bible and would do stuff daily that would send them to hell.

By the way, anytime a politician mentions their belief in the christian god remember Matthew 19:24. Once you do that you will see the idiocy all around.

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Qball

Could not have said it better. I don't believe in any religion, but I'm not going to go around trying to convince people that they are wrong for believing. I simply don't care for it and it has no use in my life.