So... Libya.... Got a bit of oil have they? - Page 2 - Snowboarding Forum - Snowboard Enthusiast Forums
 
 
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Old 03-24-2011, 07:05 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Tomahawks and drones are the cheapest and one of the most precise ways to violently kill people from a distance without putting your own men at risk.

I haven't made up my mind about the whole Libya thing in and of itself, but as purely a matter of how it was done (not why it was done) I think for a leader who was backed into a corner by the EU and NATO to do this, Obama handled it as well as anyone could have.

You can ask all the politicians in this country and they'll bitch about it to try and gain votes, but ask just about any foreign observer, pundit, or other talking head, and they will agree that Obama played his cards right when it came to the delicate task of shooting yet more U.S. hardware into a Muslim country - The Arab league was on board, the U.N. was on board, NATO was on board, the security council passed the resolution, and French and English jets were the first over the skies. He's doing everything in his power to a) help the rebels, b) not be seen as hegemonic, c) keep this short.... hopefully, d) not make up wild stories about WMDs or whatever as an excuse, e) keep our boys off the ground, f) keep our boys reasonably out of harm's way

As far as China, Russia, and the Arab League biching about collateral civilian deaths: WTF did you expect? It's war. I think NATO has put a LOT of time, effort, and money into developing very fancy weapon systems that have taken us from WWII Dresden style wholesale slaughter of civilians to a point where civilian casualties, while unfortunate, have been overwhelmingly attenuated (in the case of an air raid).

Now, if we could only get the other countries involved to do what they agreed to do. A lot of countries are showing their true spots right now and just how unreliable they are:
U.S. Pressures NATO Allies To Take Command Of Libya Mission
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:00 AM   #12 (permalink)
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"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same in any... country."
-- Nazi Reich Marshall Hermann Goerring
(at the Nuremberg War Trials)
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Old 03-24-2011, 02:22 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffreyCH View Post
"The people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy.
All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same in any... country."
-- Nazi Reich Marshall Hermann Goerring
(at the Nuremberg War Trials)
congratulations on the most irrelevent use of this quote.

the issue regarding foreign incursions over Libya, is that none of those making the attacks are actually being attacked!

Germany, a nation who is far closer to this arena of conflict than USA have withdrawn their support for purely this reason.

italy, as mentioned in here by another poster, has had missiles fired at it by Ga-daffy duck and still plays a very minor role in the situation.

and yet the overwhelming majority of acts are being undertaken by the USA.

during recent wars, many have complained that american is NOT the world's police. once again, i am being provoked into reiterating this alleged fact.

i dont like ga-daffy duck. frankly i think there have been more than enough excuses to 'neutralise him'. Pan-Am 103 and WPC Yvonne Fletcher being just two examples from a UK perspective alone!

but right now, you have a ruling authority (whether you like them or not) being threatened by a domestic force, which is being aided by foreign agents at a sudden drop of a hat.
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:31 PM   #14 (permalink)
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its so obvious that the bottom line is all about oil and always has been. If we really gave a flying fuck about dictators and human rights abuses we'd have invaded the Sudan years ago. but alas, there's no oil there. If you think its all a coincidence then you're a fuckin moron.

and the corporate controlled media is completely complicit in all of this bullshit. they make this Lybia thing look like the worst thing that ever happened, while US funded dictators do much worse things all the time and they never even mention it for a second. in fact, what the gov't in Yemen and Bahrain are doing to their own people right now is exactly the same as what Gaddafi is doing to his own people. but they are "allies", so we don't give a fuck and in turn the media pretends its not even happening
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:17 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe View Post
congratulations on the most irrelevent use of this quote.

the issue regarding foreign incursions over Libya, is that none of those making the attacks are actually being attacked!

Germany, a nation who is far closer to this arena of conflict than USA have withdrawn their support for purely this reason.

italy, as mentioned in here by another poster, has had missiles fired at it by Ga-daffy duck and still plays a very minor role in the situation.

and yet the overwhelming majority of acts are being undertaken by the USA.

during recent wars, many have complained that american is NOT the world's police. once again, i am being provoked into reiterating this alleged fact.

i dont like ga-daffy duck. frankly i think there have been more than enough excuses to 'neutralise him'. Pan-Am 103 and WPC Yvonne Fletcher being just two examples from a UK perspective alone!

but right now, you have a ruling authority (whether you like them or not) being threatened by a domestic force, which is being aided by foreign agents at a sudden drop of a hat.
You realize that the USA have 4 times the military power of the rest of the western world combined...right? Daffy LOST his ruling authority whenh started acting insane....no one would have dreamed to invade...Egypt, where Mubarak had a obviously much smarter and logical behaviour.
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Old 03-25-2011, 09:36 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pawlo View Post
You realize that the USA have 4 times the military power of the rest of the western world combined...right?
Power is nothing without control.

Quote:
Daffy LOST his ruling authority whenh started acting insane....no one would have dreamed to invade...Egypt, where Mubarak had a obviously much smarter and logical behaviour.
America's beloved Ronny Raygun regarded Daffy as a 'mad dog' who supported terrarists (tm) such as the IRA and the PLO. At the very least, Daffy can be considered flamboyant! read this profile and note that it was published back in 2009:

BBC NEWS | Africa | Profile: Muammar Gaddafi

Basically what you are suggesting, is that all of a sudden, America is unable to restrain its military might, to sort out this repeat and long term offender, whilst forsaking all the other crimes against humanity being perpetrated across the world?

There is a consistency in what rules are enforced and which are not, and it is not being discussed. This is wrong.
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Old 03-25-2011, 11:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe View Post
Power is nothing without control.
Yeah, because the Euros are doing SUCH a fucking good job at controlling the operation themselves. Decades of sitting on the international sidelines telling the U.S. everything it's doing wrong, and they refuse to even try to see out the job they agreed to. But I suppose it makes it easier for them to blame the U.S..... case in point ^^^^.

NATO takes command of part of Libya operation
Quote:
BRUSSELS — NATO agreed late Thursday to take over part of the military operations against Libya – enforcement of the no-fly zone – after days of hard bargaining among its members. But the toughest and most controversial portion of the operation – attacks on the ground – will continue to be led by the U.S., which has been anxious to give up the lead role.
This is fucking idiotic. You can't trust NATO to spine up or nut up against anything. No wonder nothing ever gets done multilaterally.

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Old 03-25-2011, 05:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaoloSmythe View Post
Power is nothing without control.



America's beloved Ronny Raygun regarded Daffy as a 'mad dog' who supported terrarists (tm) such as the IRA and the PLO. At the very least, Daffy can be considered flamboyant! read this profile and note that it was published back in 2009:

BBC NEWS | Africa | Profile: Muammar Gaddafi

Basically what you are suggesting, is that all of a sudden, America is unable to restrain its military might, to sort out this repeat and long term offender, whilst forsaking all the other crimes against humanity being perpetrated across the world?

There is a consistency in what rules are enforced and which are not, and it is not being discussed. This is wrong.
There is inconsistency in how we (US and western world in general) apply those rules, I totally agree with you. And it is very wrong...Has been since...WW2? Look at Israel..need to say more? They regularly bomb and shell and produce civilian victims..no one even peeps.

No..what I'm suggesting is that now Daffy "shitted out of the pot" (as we say in Rome) made a mess that could not be ignored and infact is not being ignored.
How much of the attention is BECAUSE Lybia has oil? A lot is my guess...but then in 2011 is that something that still surprises you?
No war was fought for else than political and or resources gain. Ever.
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