Negotiate with the Taliban? - Snowboarding Forum

Deviant · 06-23-2011, 04:52 PM

While I don't support any member of our government other than the military, this still surprised me..

BLITZER?S BLOG: Negotiating with the Taliban – The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer - CNN.com Blogs

Quote:

WASHINGTON (CNN) - President Obama says he wants to negotiate a peace settlement with the Taliban, the group in Afghanistan that harbored al Qaeda in the years leading up to 9/11. “So as we strengthen the Afghan government and security forces, America will join initiatives that reconcile the Afghan people, including the Taliban,” he said in his Wednesday evening White House address.

He then spelled out these conditions for such negotiations: “They must be led by the Afghan government, and those who want to be part of a peaceful Afghanistan must break from al Qaeda, abandon violence, and abide by the Afghan constitution.”

President Obama said he thought progress on this front can be made.

Horseshit.

Quote:

“This does not require any response or reaction for this is illogical,” Qari Mohammad Yousuf, a purported spokesman for the insurgent group, told Reuters when asked if its top leader Mullah Mohammad Omar would make any comment about Obama’s proposal.

Flick Montana · 06-24-2011, 10:50 AM

Negotiate with fundamentalist lunatics? Good luck with that.

**HoboMaster** · 06-24-2011, 04:24 PM

I thought the U.S had a "We don't negotiate with Terrorists" policy? I think the last 8 years prove the shit is fucked, and we should just let them decide their own fate and leave (if they really don't like the Taliban, they will get rid of them themselves).

But then again, occupying the middle-east was never for humanitarian reasons. I don't know why politicians are still pushing that angle, everyone knows it's horseshit. The only thing they are protecting is full-speed-ahead capitalism.

Deviant · 06-28-2011, 03:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpdsnowman

I used to agree that we should not negotiate with any "terrorist". Reason being they never really wanted to negotiate and honestly unless both sides are fully willing to negotiate its a waste of time.

But now that Bin Laden is dead I think we should. bin Laden getting killed put a serious dent in the channels of terrorism. From what I have been reading and watching our govt has the goods on these guys. They found alot of stuff in Bin Ladens "HOME" and it would not suprise me if the Taliban knows what we have....so!

The message I am getting is the Taliban wants the US out of Afghanistan, and Iraq and where ever else. So lets give it to them. Lets negotiate a peaceful settlement while the fruit is ripe to be picked.

Imagine...the mid east without the US troops...Sounds nice dont it?? I think everyone agrees we were there for all the wrong reasons. So why not negotiate a peaceful agreement...for all the right reasons...

Except the Taliban spokesman has already said NO to negotiations. These type of people (most recently) drove a truck full of explosives into a maternity ward killing their own people, and yet you think they are going to negotiate with the people that are actively trying to kill them? LOFL.

Quote:

They will be fine without the US...Our troops really dont need to be over there now that bin laden is dead. He was the catalyst ...and he is gone. Thats like Elvis dying...the legend is gone. So we should take this opportunity and move them out.

Really, you don't think once the coalition troops are gone the Taliban or fucked in the head dictators will run it again? We have been babysitting their countries for what, ten years now and they still can't get their country together.

They barely have an army worth fighting....or willing to fight even. All I personally see with these countries is when the US is in a neighborhood it's "Hooray, USA". When the terrorists are in a neighborhood it's "Death To America, you burned our Quran!!! Ending terrorism is a pipe-dream. Once the last troops leave, it will be as it always was. They won't learn, they don't want to learn, time to leave.

...oh wait the president of Afghanistan with his elementary school education might threaten to join the Taliban again if we do that.

**HoboMaster** · 06-28-2011, 09:10 PM

The Middle East is so radically different from the U.S, culturally, geographically, economically. Their world is their world and will never be our world. If they really want to change things - the change will have to come from them. You can make an obese person go to Weight Watchers, but if they have no drive, motivation and discipline to not be fat, what's going to stop them from buying Twinkies?

Another pipe dream is the trying to realize that the whole world can be democratic capitalist America. It doesn't work, our system relies on poor and unstable countries staying that way so that we can yield cheap labor, resources and products. Not to mention that many places in the world are geographically poor with consumer resources. Trying to push our way of life on people living in these places just ends up ruining the environment and quality of life for the people living there, much like it did to Africa.

Deviant · 06-29-2011, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mpdsnowman

They will be fine without the US...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deviant

Really, you don't think once the coalition troops are gone the Taliban or fucked in the head dictators will run it again? We have been babysitting their countries for what, ten years now and they still can't get their country together.

That's what I was getting at, I thought you meant that they will be fine in terms of defending themselves without US troops.

As said before, we can try and shove our ways down their throat, but as any American knows, you cannot change an individuals religious beliefs, no matter how whack it is. If these people really believe that dying while killing others is granting them an eternity of happiness, then it's time for us to wash our hands of them. We killed the mastermind OBL, but someone else will just replace the last. This cycle will never stop as long as the leaders keep recruiting, and as long as the US is there it makes it very easy for them to do so.

In regards to the most recent attack on the "secure" hotel..

Quote:

"Such incidents will not stop us for transitioning security of our country" to Afghan forces, Karzai said.

Riiiiight. Expecting the Afghan forces to do what NATO could barely do. Sounds promising.

gezsweet · 07-07-2011, 12:53 PM

Whether you agree with it or not the main reason the US is prepared to negotiate with the moderate elements of the Taliban is so that when they do leave (2015? That the expected date?) there is less likelihood of a power vacuum of sorts.. what with a weak president in Karzai with his corrupt government, police and ill-prepared army up against the Taliban while still also trying to appease the various warlords and other factions.

In all probability, the country will descend into another civil war with the end result possibly an entity enforcing its strict interpretation of Islam, whose default position is outright hostility towards the US, the welcoming of Al Qaeda or other factions to breed as well as a contagion effect on Pakistan and beyond. So yes, the US would likely be forced to intervene once again in years from now to protect it's assets in the Middle East.

**HoboMaster** · 07-07-2011, 10:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gezsweet

Whether you agree with it or not the main reason the US is prepared to negotiate with the moderate elements of the Taliban is so that when they do leave (2015? That the expected date?) there is less likelihood of a power vacuum of sorts.. what with a weak president in Karzai with his corrupt government, police and ill-prepared army up against the Taliban while still also trying to appease the various warlords and other factions.

In all probability, the country will descend into another civil war with the end result possibly an entity enforcing its strict interpretation of Islam, whose default position is outright hostility towards the US, the welcoming of Al Qaeda or other factions to breed as well as a contagion effect on Pakistan and beyond. So yes, the US would likely be forced to intervene once again in years from now to protect it's assets in the Middle East.

Which is why, instead of spending all that money on re-invading and occupying the Middle-East, we should invest that money into a renewable energy grid.

That won't happen until the Fat Catz get close to depleting their fossil fuel supply sadly however.

gezsweet · 07-09-2011, 10:58 AM

I couldn't agree more. However, the car manufacturer's do appear to be taking initiatives of their own. I know a bunch of them are increasing production of hybrid and electric cars which are scheduled to enter the market from 2012, and they are also looking to introduce more enviromentally-friendly engines into their other lines.

With fuel prices so high at the moment and people becoming more conscious of their own 'carbon footprint' there is hope that there will be real growth in hybrid cars.

**HoboMaster** · 07-09-2011, 11:48 AM

Biggest issue with hybrid and electric cars is battery technology. To put it frankly, as electricity storing mediums the current types of batteries we have absolutely suck. Their not efficient, they wear out, and their made out of precious and toxic elements. Until someone comes up with a highly efficient battery, I don't see the electric car market going anywhere except for wealthy eco-snobs. If someone were to invent a new battery however, it could seriously revolutionize transportation and automobiles.

Another interesting electricity medium is hydrogen. Hydrogen can be used to basically replace the battery as a energy storing medium - and it's extremely efficient and 99% emission free. As far as the long-term future goes, unless someone miraculously invents a new battery I see hydrogen replacing gasoline as a fuel source.

06-24-2011, 10:50 AM	#2 (permalink)
Flick Montana Veteran Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Beech Grove, Indiana sigh Posts: 4,168	Negotiate with fundamentalist lunatics? Good luck with that. __________________ Zombie Nation Gear: Rome Design 165 / Rome Arsenals Rome Anthem 158

06-24-2011, 04:24 PM	#3 (permalink)
HoboMaster Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sandpoint / Moscow, ID Posts: 2,301	I thought the U.S had a "We don't negotiate with Terrorists" policy? I think the last 8 years prove the shit is fucked, and we should just let them decide their own fate and leave (if they really don't like the Taliban, they will get rid of them themselves). But then again, occupying the middle-east was never for humanitarian reasons. I don't know why politicians are still pushing that angle, everyone knows it's horseshit. The only thing they are protecting is full-speed-ahead capitalism. __________________ PowderHound and TreeNinja

06-28-2011, 09:10 PM	#5 (permalink)
HoboMaster Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sandpoint / Moscow, ID Posts: 2,301	The Middle East is so radically different from the U.S, culturally, geographically, economically. Their world is their world and will never be our world. If they really want to change things - the change will have to come from them. You can make an obese person go to Weight Watchers, but if they have no drive, motivation and discipline to not be fat, what's going to stop them from buying Twinkies? Another pipe dream is the trying to realize that the whole world can be democratic capitalist America. It doesn't work, our system relies on poor and unstable countries staying that way so that we can yield cheap labor, resources and products. Not to mention that many places in the world are geographically poor with consumer resources. Trying to push our way of life on people living in these places just ends up ruining the environment and quality of life for the people living there, much like it did to Africa. __________________ PowderHound and TreeNinja

07-09-2011, 11:48 AM	#10 (permalink)
HoboMaster Senior Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Sandpoint / Moscow, ID Posts: 2,301	Biggest issue with hybrid and electric cars is battery technology. To put it frankly, as electricity storing mediums the current types of batteries we have absolutely suck. Their not efficient, they wear out, and their made out of precious and toxic elements. Until someone comes up with a highly efficient battery, I don't see the electric car market going anywhere except for wealthy eco-snobs. If someone were to invent a new battery however, it could seriously revolutionize transportation and automobiles. Another interesting electricity medium is hydrogen. Hydrogen can be used to basically replace the battery as a energy storing medium - and it's extremely efficient and 99% emission free. As far as the long-term future goes, unless someone miraculously invents a new battery I see hydrogen replacing gasoline as a fuel source. __________________ PowderHound and TreeNinja

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07-07-2011, 12:53 PM	#7 (permalink)
gezsweet Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenock Posts: 109	Whether you agree with it or not the main reason the US is prepared to negotiate with the moderate elements of the Taliban is so that when they do leave (2015? That the expected date?) there is less likelihood of a power vacuum of sorts.. what with a weak president in Karzai with his corrupt government, police and ill-prepared army up against the Taliban while still also trying to appease the various warlords and other factions. In all probability, the country will descend into another civil war with the end result possibly an entity enforcing its strict interpretation of Islam, whose default position is outright hostility towards the US, the welcoming of Al Qaeda or other factions to breed as well as a contagion effect on Pakistan and beyond. So yes, the US would likely be forced to intervene once again in years from now to protect it's assets in the Middle East.

07-09-2011, 10:58 AM	#9 (permalink)
gezsweet Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenock Posts: 109	I couldn't agree more. However, the car manufacturer's do appear to be taking initiatives of their own. I know a bunch of them are increasing production of hybrid and electric cars which are scheduled to enter the market from 2012, and they are also looking to introduce more enviromentally-friendly engines into their other lines. With fuel prices so high at the moment and people becoming more conscious of their own 'carbon footprint' there is hope that there will be real growth in hybrid cars.